View Poll Results: Is fascism left or right wing?

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Thread: Is Fascism Right Wing?

  1. #301
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indeed View Post
    In school, I was taught that fascism was not in fact right wing, but compared to American Government, it was very much left wing. Our history class taught that the Nazi party of Germany had a meeting with the Communist Party of Germany to discuss a number of things starting on what slogans would be and what category they would say they were. Fascists were very much left wing, but they looked like right wing extremists compared to the communists, so they decided to call the communists left wing and call the fascists right wing to avoid confusion.
    Fascism is left wing because you cannot own a business or large home if you don't toe the line that the ruling party draws.. If you don't toe the line, they take your business and give it to someone who will. It is far right of either communism or socialism in that it allows private property at all. In socialism the government owns all the business and makes sure that everyone is paid equally, and in communism the gov't owns everything and makes sure that everyone has everything they need.
    So fascism is far right of communism but still pretty far left of American conservatism. It's somewhere in the middle.
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  2. #302
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    <--(American) right wing-------------- (American) left wing--(european) socialism--fascism-communism-->

    Anyone who thinks fascism is right wing (american right), is not worth wasting any of your life talking to. There is a tiny handful of issues that might fall between the fascist realm and american right. Usually minor social issues with little bearing on the overall government. There is a gigantic mountain of issues the left and fascists are lock step in.

  3. #303
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Extreme right wing and extreme left wing are pretty much the same thing... Extreme
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  4. #304
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Only in America would the question even be asked.
    And to a lesser extent, deserves to be discussed in Britain as well. Those are the only places where "conservatism" means "conserving" the Liberal English Enlightenment's bequeathal to us (free trade, free men). On much of the Continent, conservatism has meant "conserving" traditional vestiges of authoritarian power, or maintaining a non-L/liberal foreign policy. It is better to say that fascism is anti-Liberalism in the traditional (dare I say, 'conservative') meaning of the word, rather than the cover term for 'progressivism' that it has become today.

  5. #305
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    I concur.

    President Woodward Wilson was a progressive and an extreme racist to the max.
    Probably our most racist president. Screened "Birth of a Nation" at the White House, as I recall. Most progressives of the time were - it was science, after all.

    Was Theodore Roosevelt, also a progressive a racist ? By the true definition not the PC definition, yes. Teddy Roosevelt was a American nationalist. But he despised those those using hyphenating - Americans. But he did looked upon non Europeans as being inferior.
    Not to mention the "children" people of Asia for whom he assumed the beneficence of white mastery.

  6. #306
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indeed View Post
    In school, I was taught that fascism was not in fact right wing, but compared to American Government, it was very much left wing. Our history class taught that the Nazi party of Germany had a meeting with the Communist Party of Germany to discuss a number of things starting on what slogans would be and what category they would say they were. Fascists were very much left wing, but they looked like right wing extremists compared to the communists, so they decided to call the communists left wing and call the fascists right wing to avoid confusion.
    Fascism is left wing because you cannot own a business or large home if you don't toe the line that the ruling party draws.. If you don't toe the line, they take your business and give it to someone who will. It is far right of either communism or socialism in that it allows private property at all. In socialism the government owns all the business and makes sure that everyone is paid equally, and in communism the gov't owns everything and makes sure that everyone has everything they need.
    So fascism is far right of communism but still pretty far left of American conservatism. It's somewhere in the middle.
    If you apply a one-dimensional scale of "left vs. right" that exclusively considers the role of free market vs. government, then fascism was left-wing. But this one-dimensional spectrum is a horrible over-simplification and totally unsuited to explain many political phenomena.

    In Germany, the (monarchist-authoritarian) conservative right was traditionally statist. Advocates of free markets were considered centrist.

    Nazism (if you consider it an example for fascism) was obviously right-wing. It took all the ideological elements the conservative right supported (militarism, authoritarian top-down government, anti-modernism, anti-enlightenment, imperialism, nationalism, racism, biologism) and the left fought against, and put them on steroids. All these named ideological stances had Nazism in common with authoritarian conservatism. The left, on the other side, was anti-militaristic/pacifist, supported a bottom-up style of government, was anti-imperialistic, internationalist, and, depending if we're talking about moderate or radical left, at least based on philosophies in the tradition of enlightenment (even if that was Marx, taking the enlightenment pathos of egalitarianism to the extreme).
    Last edited by German guy; 06-01-13 at 10:22 AM.
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  7. #307
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Low information types tend to confuse Fascism with Mercantilism and Militarism.

    Fascism is a loosely defined political philosophy, bu it is definitely a Collectivist, and therefore Left Wing.
    Just because it is collectivist and therefore Left Wing is a stretch.

    Yes Fascism is a collectivist, as is Socialism and Communism. But Fascism is all about the conflicts between races and nationalities, whereas Socialism is the conflict between classes.

    Furthermore, while both want state-controlled industry, it is for far different means. Socialists want to prevent the oppression of the Proletariat. Fascism state control serves to ensure the State becomes self-sufficient, not needing the assistance of foreigners.

    And the nail on the coffin is that Fascists are nationalist, imperialistic, and militarists, all things criticized in most Left Wing spheres, especially communism and socialism.

    Fascism is fairly defined. Like every political theory, it varies, but these key concepts must exist for Fascism to permeate.
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  8. #308
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    The American right's denial of their heritage seems to congeal around Jonas Goldberg's 1990's revisionist polemic.
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  9. #309
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The American right's denial of their heritage seems to congeal around Jonas Goldberg's 1990's revisionist polemic.
    It's especially weird that so many righties fail to see that things like Patriot Act, extralegal detentions, starting wars on a wave of nationalism and militarism and public spending on a big military are not exactly "small government" ... yet they keep on claiming that "small government" defines the right.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  10. #310
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Clarence Darrow
    Beyond getting into your silly guilt by association attack of progressives (in a thread on fascism, but I suppose when you can't turn fascism into liberalism, the next best thing to do is to turn progressives into fascists) argument, I just have to point out that even your beloved Jonah Goldberg understood that Clarence Darrow was anti-eugenics, very clearly shown in Darrow's "The Eugenics Cult".

    PS...if all of this exercise is a form of "see, you guys were just as bad" argument, not only is it a conceding that fascism was right wing, it is also acknowledging that under the facade of being "libertarian-right", you are nothing more than a conservative with extreme free-market views......or worse.
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