View Poll Results: Is fascism left or right wing?

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    62 52.10%
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Thread: Is Fascism Right Wing?

  1. #291
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Does this mean Burleigh was just kidding when he indicated that a lot of the Nazi party came from the German left? Do you deny that, in fact, most of the members of the Nazi Party came from the German left?
    The German left, the left socialists (Weimar SPD) and Communists (KDP:Thälmann) were battling NAZI's in the Berlin streets in 1932.
    I suppose you are referencing your Goldberg cited politically shallow "young German", but as I showed, the high members of the NAZI inteligencia were right wing, as was the Party.

    I take the quote you so painstakingly copied to mean that they were attracted by the rightist elements of the Nazi Party, particularly, I guess, the authoritarianism and nationalism. As I've already alluded to, this puts the Nazis more to the right than communists, but that doesn't mean that the Nazis are on the right. Taking everything into account this is clearly not the case.
    So let's review, the NAZI intelligentsia was rightist, the Party was authoritarian, nationalistic, anticommunist, extremely racist.....but that doesn't make the NAZI's rightist?

    LOL....yup...Goldberg!
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  2. #292
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Again, another baseless claim.
    You think that progressives in the 1930s were not racist? How ignorant. Your self image as a progressive is based on your own self deception. Read something of the history of your own ideology.

    Filler. All Fluff
    No, bluster on your part.

    LOL...first you claim that the fascist/left say:

    "is its reliance on centralized state power, with all hands turned to the service of the state and the state taking care of everyone's needs, controlling everything."

    Which is the people serving the state......but that is not how NAZI propaganda framed the state/volk relation, they viewed the state serving the people, the opposite of what you thought......which you now say IS a "leftist" viewpoint, coming full circle but without the "fascist" connotation.

    You have no idea what any of ideologies actually said, you just make it up as you go along.
    No, you are deeply ignorant of the history here. With the fascists it went both ways -- the state serving the people and the people serving the state. Is this not the leftist ideal? Of course it is. It is essentially leftist.

    You are attempting to disrupt this thread and render it useless to other readers with your comments made in bad faith.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  3. #293
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    The German left, the left socialists (Weimar SPD) and Communists (KDP:Thälmann) were battling NAZI's in the Berlin streets in 1932.
    I suppose you are referencing your Goldberg cited politically shallow "young German", but as I showed, the high members of the NAZI inteligencia were right wing, as was the Party.
    More bad faith on your part. Instead of dealing with the facts you want to demonize Goldberg, a Jew. How telling.

    Was Hitler, who gravitated to the German Workers Party, right wing? Was Hitler right wing when he called for a socialist program as one of the very first political agendas he subscribed to? How prescient of him to come up with this just to attract leftists to his cause! Except, of course, he demonstrated allegiance to this socialist agenda all through his tenure as Nazi party leader, put that agenda into effect, and won the hearts of ethnic Germans until the very end as a result.

    So let's review, the NAZI intelligentsia was rightist, the Party was authoritarian, nationalistic, anticommunist, extremely racist.....but that doesn't make the NAZI's rightist?
    No, as a matter of fact, it does not. Authoritarianism and nationalism was shared by the Stalinists. So was racism. "Anticommunism" is, of course, nothing more than a tautology. The Nazis and the Communists were in competition for members from the same group of leftists.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  4. #294
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    More bad faith on your part. Instead of dealing with the facts you want to demonize Goldberg, a Jew. How telling.
    I was demonizing his Jewishness? Really? And I am operating on bad faith? Wow, take a look in the mirror...go ahead, I'll wait.

    Was Hitler, who gravitated to the German Workers Party, right wing? Was Hitler right wing when he called for a socialist program as one of the very first political agendas he subscribed to? How prescient of him to come up with this just to attract leftists to his cause! Except, of course, he demonstrated allegiance to this socialist agenda all through his tenure as Nazi party leader, put that agenda into effect, and won the hearts of ethnic Germans until the very end as a result.
    Was Hitler right wing? That has been answered throughout this thread, the quote from Burleigh applies to Hitler as well as the rest of SA intelligentsia.



    No, as a matter of fact, it does not. Authoritarianism and nationalism was shared by the Stalinists.
    And as I pointed out before, Stalin was seen as the Red Fascist, he broke far from Marx.



    So was racism.
    All you are doing is reducing everything into meaninglessness. Everyone has noses, including fascists. I was not making it the determinate of fascism, The US south is not fascist....but they are right wing, and racism is a general characteristic of rw/authoritarianism.


    "Anticommunism" is, of course, nothing more than a tautology.
    To what? Of what?
    The Nazis and the Communists were in competition for members from the same group of leftists.
    The GOP and Dems are in competition for the same US voters....so?
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  5. #295
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    You think that progressives in the 1930s were not racist? How ignorant. Your self image as a progressive is based on your own self deception. Read something of the history of your own ideology.
    Oh...I see....if a small number of members hold racist views.....then the "ideology" becomes racist, it is a bottom up, guilt by association thingy.



    No, bluster on your part.
    Yes, conservative/authoritarian ideology is responsible for individual liberties! Of course!



    No, you are deeply ignorant of the history here. With the fascists it went both ways -- the state serving the people and the people serving the state.
    You are talking out of both sides of your mouth, you have no idea what their ideology was.

    Is this not the leftist ideal?
    You can make it anything you want since it has no meaning, you made it that way.
    Of course it is. It is essentially leftist.
    Again, you made it meaningless.

    You are attempting to disrupt this thread and render it useless to other readers with your comments made in bad faith.
    Tell me again, the guy who is a liberal, that I'm a racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  6. #296
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    You think that progressives in the 1930s were not racist? How ignorant. Your self image as a progressive is based on your own self deception. Read something of the history of your own ideology.
    I concur.

    President Woodward Wilson was a progressive and an extreme racist to the max.


    Was Theodore Roosevelt, also a progressive a racist ? By the true definition not the PC definition, yes. Teddy Roosevelt was a American nationalist. But he despised those those using hyphenating - Americans. But he did looked upon non Europeans as being inferior.


    But who are the biggest racist ? The political left. Socialist use minorities as pawns to advance their political agenda. Liberal Democrats believe that blacks and Latinos are inferior and aren't capable to compete in America and have to come under as being a protected group and given special protections, free stuff and special privileges (affirmative action) That sounds like racism.


    If you were to list all of the avowed racist of today and in the past, the vast majority are or were on the political left. The KKK was the militant arm of the Democrat Party for a hundred years. Just the political left telling minorities that they need special privileges and protections is racist.

    I know to many black Americans and Americans of Mexican decent who are very successful and never used their race or ethnicity or affirmative action policies to be successful.

    In reality the political left holds down the minority from succeeding in America because the Democrat Party depends on poverty to exist.

  7. #297
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by APACHERAT View Post
    I concur.

    President Woodward Wilson was a progressive and an extreme racist to the max.


    Was Theodore Roosevelt, also a progressive a racist ? By the true definition not the PC definition, yes. Teddy Roosevelt was a American nationalist. But he despised those those using hyphenating - Americans. But he did looked upon non Europeans as being inferior.


    But who are the biggest racist ? The political left. Socialist use minorities as pawns to advance their political agenda. Liberal Democrats believe that blacks and Latinos are inferior and aren't capable to compete in America and have to come under as being a protected group and given special protections, free stuff and special privileges (affirmative action) That sounds like racism.


    If you were to list all of the avowed racist of today and in the past, the vast majority are or were on the political left. The KKK was the militant arm of the Democrat Party for a hundred years. Just the political left telling minorities that they need special privileges and protections is racist.

    I know to many black Americans and Americans of Mexican decent who are very successful and never used their race or ethnicity or affirmative action policies to be successful.

    In reality the political left holds down the minority from succeeding in America because the Democrat Party depends on poverty to exist.
    Premise A is a B
    Premise A is also a C
    Conclusion Therefore, all Bs are Cs
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  8. #298
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Low information types tend to confuse Fascism with Mercantilism and Militarism.

    Fascism is a loosely defined political philosophy, bu it is definitely a Collectivist, and therefore Left Wing.
    Quod scripsi, scripsi

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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Premise A is a B
    Premise A is also a C
    Conclusion Therefore, all Bs are Cs
    A + B + C = LSD mind warps or permanent brain damage.

    Evidence seems to weigh that you have been reading to many "free" rags you find in front of Star Bucks or scattered on the street corners of urban America that are nothing but liberal bias propaganda that dumbs down those who read them. There are exceptions like the "L.A. Weekly " who have some excellent investigative reporters.

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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Oh...I see....if a small number of members hold racist views.....then the "ideology" becomes racist, it is a bottom up, guilt by association thingy.
    No, they all believed the same things. And it wasn't by half measures -- they were full throated, committed racists. They really were racists in the precise and proper use of the term, and in formulating public policy they were true to their principles.

    Where to start?

    How about Woodrow Wilson?

    He shared the conviction, dominant among Ivy League progressives, that blacks were inferior to whites. In government, he supported segregation of the civil service, with blacks working in menial jobs. He argued strongly for the policy, and it wasn't until the end of WWII that it was ended. Like many progressives, Wilson was an adherent of "scientific racism" and eugenics.

    Thus perhaps the most systematic expression of progressive racism was in the eugenics movement which was all the rage among progressives from 1890 to the 1930s.

    Eugenics was widely accepted in the U.S. academic community. By 1928 there were 376 separate university courses in some of the United States' leading schools, enrolling more than 20,000 students, which included eugenics in the curriculum
    Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory, an academic institution, was established with money from the Carnegie Institute for the purpose of promoting eugenics. The Rockefeller Foundation contributed support.

    Margaret Sanger, Theodore Roosevelt, J. Kellog, HG Wells, Woodrow Wilson, Clarence Darrow, Frank Babbott, Charles Davenport, Stanford President David Jordan, among others, were American progressives who promoted eugenics.

    And we are talking here of a eugenics that sanctions forced sterilizations, euthanasia, etc., to remove "undesirable" blood lines from the gene pool.

    It is an interesting and little known twist of history that Nazi Germany got their ideas about how to enforce racial purity from American eugenicists, not the other way around. German race laws of the 1930s were based on statutes then in force in California.

    Eugenics and American social history, 1880-1950. [Genome. 1989] - PubMed - NCBI

    History News Network

    Eugenics in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Woodrow Wilson - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Progressive Racism | National Review Online

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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