View Poll Results: Is fascism left or right wing?

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    28 23.53%
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    62 52.10%
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    20 16.81%
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    9 7.56%
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Thread: Is Fascism Right Wing?

  1. #281
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    Also see Burleigh, M. The Third Reich: A New History (New York, Hill and Wang, 2000)
    Uh-huh, how about pp 186? Where he talks about the SD ( Sicherheitsdienst des Reichsführers-SS), the intel arm of the SA.....?

    Is Fascism Right Wing?-burleigh-jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  2. #282
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    So the idea of individual freedom, the removal of judgement of a human based on race, the liberating of a human, is not from liberal ideology....but from conservative/authoritarian structures?

    Could you back up your claim in any way?
    No, I'm not claiming that. Just because the left in Germany (and America) was racist in the 1920s and '30s doesn't mean conservatives were not. Nor does the left historically have any exclusive claim on the idea that people should not be judged by race. Far from it.

    "Hitler and his associates claimed that the nation, or the people, was primary, and that the state was its instrument"
    C. Cohen "Communism, Fascism and Democracy" p. 365
    How does this differ from what leftists say about the state? Seems to me to be similar to the Marxist "will of the people."

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  3. #283
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Ah this explains a lot, this was cited in the neocon Jonah Goldberg's screed "Liberal Fascism". You decided to use the original citation rather than where you really read it. Well done, enough said.
    This is interesting. How does the fact that Goldberg cited the quote change its meaning?

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  4. #284
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Uh-huh, how about pp 186? Where he talks about the SD ( Sicherheitsdienst des Reichsführers-SS), the intel arm of the SA.....?

    Is Fascism Right Wing?-burleigh-jpg
    Does this mean Burleigh was just kidding when he indicated that a lot of the Nazi party came from the German left? Do you deny that, in fact, most of the members of the Nazi Party came from the German left?

    I take the quote you so painstakingly copied to mean that they were attracted by the rightist elements of the Nazi Party, particularly, I guess, the authoritarianism and nationalism. As I've already alluded to, this puts the Nazis more to the right than communists, but that doesn't mean that the Nazis are on the right. Taking everything into account this is clearly not the case.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  5. #285
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    On a left / right scale - an economics scale - fascism is centrist.

    On an authoritarian / libertarian scale, fascist states are extremely authoritarian.

    Being authoritarian does not make a government rightist. Stalinist USSR was also extremely authoritarian, and I defy anyone to tell me it was not representative of the extreme economic left...

  6. #286
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Only in America would the question even be asked. Such is the power of the rightwing propaganda machine.

    There's a German comedian, talking about the (notoriously rightwng) British Daily Mail, and how often they crowbar in a reference to WW2 to completely unrelated subjects, even today. His throwaway line was that the Daily Mail is more fascist than the Nazis at their worst!
    Last edited by Manc Skipper; 05-28-13 at 10:02 PM.
    Don't work out, work in.

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  7. #287
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    No, I'm not claiming that. Just because the left in Germany (and America) was racist in the 1920s and '30s doesn't mean conservatives were not.
    Again, another baseless claim.

    Nor does the left historically have any exclusive claim on the idea that people should not be judged by race. Far from it.
    Filler, all fluff.



    How does this differ from what leftists say about the state? Seems to me to be similar to the Marxist "will of the people."
    LOL...first you claim that the fascist/left say:

    "is its reliance on centralized state power, with all hands turned to the service of the state and the state taking care of everyone's needs, controlling everything."

    Which is the people serving the state......but that is not how NAZI propaganda framed the state/volk relation, they viewed the state serving the people, the opposite of what you thought......which you now say IS a "leftist" viewpoint, coming full circle but without the "fascist" connotation.

    You have no idea what any of ideologies actually said, you just make it up as you go along.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  8. #288
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Only in America would the question even be asked.
    The popular Political Compass quiz is made by some (fairly obviously left-leaning) British dudes.

    Guess where they put Hitler? :P (Hint: it's exactly where I said he was.)

  9. #289
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    This is interesting. How does the fact that Goldberg cited the quote change its meaning?
    It doesn't change the meaning of the single point anecdote, it just highlights were you get your references. You view of poli-sci is as jumbled as Goldberg's.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  10. #290
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Nazi's, socialists, communists...all collectivists.
    You are a serf of the state.
    If you live long enough, you will live in a foreign country, because the past is foreign to the present. We lived differently then. The only constant is change!

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