View Poll Results: Is fascism left or right wing?

Voters
119. You may not vote on this poll
  • Left

    28 23.53%
  • Right

    62 52.10%
  • Neither

    20 16.81%
  • Description sucks

    9 7.56%
Page 22 of 34 FirstFirst ... 12202122232432 ... LastLast
Results 211 to 220 of 340

Thread: Is Fascism Right Wing?

  1. #211
    Guru
    Cyrylek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boston
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    FFS...yes, anarchists don't support gay marriage, legalization......sigh. Not only are your views on US liberals messed up, but so are your views on anarchists.
    Oh, I see. You simply cannot make logical constructs. A form of dyslexia, I presume. If somebody says that he is not an anarchist, and then says - in response to a suggestion that he is a social conservative that he is not - in your mind it means that he just accused anarchists of being social conservatives. Remarkable.
    Well, bye now.

  2. #212
    Guru
    Cyrylek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boston
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Uh huh.. Ideological kinship
    Yes, of course. The American socialists were sympathetic to the proclaimed "socialist experiment" in Russia, and remained blind to its obvious totalitarian character for much longer than would be excusable. Doesn't mean they were totalitarian themselves, or as close to Stalinism as Fascism and Nazism, on that Nolan chart.

  3. #213
    Sage
    Gimmesometruth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    US Southwest
    Last Seen
    09-13-17 @ 10:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    22,405

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Fascists being an extreme part of the left
    They are not:

    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  4. #214
    Sage
    Gimmesometruth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    US Southwest
    Last Seen
    09-13-17 @ 10:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    22,405

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Yes, of course. The American socialists were sympathetic to the proclaimed "socialist experiment" in Russia, and remained blind to its obvious totalitarian character for much longer than would be excusable. Doesn't mean they were totalitarian themselves, or as close to Stalinism as Fascism and Nazism, on that Nolan chart.
    I'm afraid you just keep jumping all over the map, you have not been able to hold a consistent viewpoint or set of definitions, and your context removing editing is just an extension of your consistent dishonest debate technique. See ya, don't wanna be ya (and I mean it).
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  5. #215
    Curmudgeon


    LowDown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Houston
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,566
    Blog Entries
    11

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    In a tradionalist political science sense, Fascism is generally regarded as "right wing" to an utter extreme. Attempting to compare it as some kind of analog or similar thing to modern american conservatism would be like trying to compare a mid-major Basketball team with the Chicago Bulls of the 90's. It's an emotional bit of hyperbole used as a political bludgeon without regard to common sense.

    Take the standard Nolan Chart that's often referenced, or just take the general mindset of it. I prefer it to the standard "left" / "right" idea. Everythings based off a two part scale in terms of Economic Freedom and Social Freedom (or the focus on community vs focus on individual).

    Here's a general view of it



    In this, Facism would be in the lower portion, probably in the bottom right portion of that section.

    Here's a very interesting take on some of the various types of ideologies commonly thought about in the U.S. as well as the extreme ends for each side.

    Putting fascism on the scale between capitalism and totalitarianism would be correct only if capitalists were leaders in the fascist government, and they were not. They took direction from the fascists, which were former socialists. They had some state authority in Italy, but almost none in Germany. Fascism is being put far to the right with ideolgies that share none of its key features such as welfare, central control of the economy and the monitary system, government health care, and guaranteed employment. It ought to be over to the left with ideologies that advocate those features. Mussolini invented totalitariansim, so to seperate fascism from this is misleading.


    Mussolini:
    The keystone of the Fascist doctrine is its conception of the State, of its essence, its functions, and its aims. For Fascism the State is absolute, individuals and groups relative.

    All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  6. #216
    Curmudgeon


    LowDown's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Houston
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:07 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    11,566
    Blog Entries
    11

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucker View Post
    But again, this is no argument that they were leftists.

    It's only an argument that the Right shares some perverse political inclinations.
    On the one side you have an ideology that advocates central control of the economy and the monitary system, government health care, cradle to grave welfare, guaranteed employment, abolition of class differences, high and progressive taxation, and seizure and redistribution of land and wealth.

    On the other side you have an ideology that advocates a free market with a minimum of government involement, a gold standard, no government involement in industry beyond policing, private charity, low taxes, respect of traditional class divisions, and respect and protection of private property.

    There is simply no question that fascism belongs in the first classification above. To which do leftist ideologies belong?

    All else is meaningless as ideologies only have meaning in terms of the policies they inspire and justify.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  7. #217
    Sage
    Gimmesometruth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    US Southwest
    Last Seen
    09-13-17 @ 10:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    22,405

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    On the one side you have an ideology that advocates central control of the economy and the monitary system, government health care, cradle to grave welfare, guaranteed employment, abolition of class differences, high and progressive taxation, and seizure and redistribution of land and wealth.

    On the other side you have an ideology that advocates a free market with a minimum of government involement, a gold standard, no government involement in industry beyond policing, private charity, low taxes, respect of traditional class divisions, and respect and protection of private property.

    There is simply no question that fascism belongs in the first classification above. To which do leftist ideologies belong?

    All else is meaningless as ideologies only have meaning in terms of the policies they inspire and justify.
    You are wrong on some important points, Spengler like Mussolini, were corporatists, where the corporation is not owned by the party but where the production is focused towards best use.

    And the fascists in Germany were VERY interested in keeping traditional German hierarchy in place, to the the extreme of eliminating Slavs, Jews, Gypsies, gays....intellectuals and any other "degenerates" out of the German gene pool.


    You, like the other guy, are a bit confused when it comes to Fascism vs Marxism.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  8. #218
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    08-04-13 @ 05:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    459

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    All else is meaningless as ideologies only have meaning in terms of the policies they inspire and justify.
    Exactly one of the points I"ve been making...and which no one will even countenance, much less respond. So it's gratifying that you hold to a similar viewpoint.

    That said, again, we can take a regime that is more or less universally considered of the political Right (and even admired by some, to their shame): Pinochet.

    "The policies [he] inspire[d] and justif[ied]" were quite obviously of statist repression and authoritarianism. Whatever brutally cold illogic that Hayek, Thatcher and some Chicago-School acolytes might summon in his defense, he wasn't even supportive of "free markets": repressing people who disagree is by definition government intrusion into those markets.

    So the political right, in this case (and far from the only case, notably throughout Central and South America throughout much of the 20th century) was certainly not concerned about freedom...except of course for oligarchs, who were the "natural rulers."

    So yes, "respect for traditional class divisions" was unquestionably a hallmark of the right-wing state terror. This should be a condemnation, not an accolade.

    But minimum government involvement? Nope.

    As you say, ideologies' meaning is delineated by behaviour, not by claims...certainly not the claims made on this thread, which elevate the ideals as more real than reality...a stance that takes some discipline to maintain.
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
    --Vladimir Nabokov

  9. #219
    Sage
    blackjack50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:10 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    25,386

    Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Again, the only difference between US conservatives and most fascists is the marginal difference in social freedoms, and as I said, there are lots of cons promoting the restrictions of social freedoms on groups outside of theirs. Bircherism is alive and well within the US right wing, Palin and the tea bags are just a few steps away from Stormfront.
    Lol this is amusing. So y'all are willing to take ownership of Stalin and the communists? Mao Zedong too?
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  10. #220
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    08-04-13 @ 05:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    459

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Lol this is amusing. So y'all are willing to take ownership of Stalin and the communists? Mao Zedong too?
    If by "ownership" you're asking whether I consider such regimes to have been leftist...my answer is the same: yes, with an admixture of other ideologies stirred into the pot.
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
    --Vladimir Nabokov

Page 22 of 34 FirstFirst ... 12202122232432 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •