View Poll Results: Is fascism left or right wing?

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    28 23.53%
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    62 52.10%
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    20 16.81%
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Thread: Is Fascism Right Wing?

  1. #191
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I hope you can come around to accepting that we do describe politics via a scale of economic freedom in conjunction with a description of social freedoms.
    I don't have to come around: I was there all the time. And actual liberals ("libertarians") - those scoring very high on both scales - are not "the left", not socialists, and the very polar opposite of the Communists, the Nazis and the Fascists.

  2. #192
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Again, the only difference between US conservatives and most fascists is the marginal difference in social freedoms, and as I said, there are lots of cons promoting the restrictions of social freedoms on groups outside of theirs. Bircherism is alive and well within the US right wing, Palin and the tea bags are just a few steps away from Stormfront.
    This ain't limited to the GOP. The whole of the Republocrats are a fascist party. Huge government, large personal interference, little regard to rights, infinity war, corporate capitalism, etc. The status quo is one of fascism and the Republocrats push and support the status quo.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #193
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    No, that's what right-wing propaganda has convinced you of. You're thinking authoritarian - libertarian, not left-right.
    You're using pointless subsections. When it comes right down to it, you're either Right, Left, or on the Fence.

  4. #194
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    The Fascism is very poorly understood, if we go by the constant confusion of the Fascism with the Nazism, even on this thread. And, as this thread also testifies, there's a wide range of opinions on what are the "left wing principles", exactly.
    Why would I opt for the confused opinions of people on this board when I have nearly all the world's dictionaries at my fingertips?

    The principles and organization of Fascists. Also, loosely, any form of right-wing authoritarianism.
    Home : Oxford English Dictionary

    an 'anti-ideological' and pragmatic ideology that proclaims itself antimaterialist, anti-individualist, antiliberal, antidemocratic, anti-Marxist, is populist and anticapitalist in tendency, expresses itself aesthetically more than theoretically by means of a new political style and by myths, rites, and symbols as a lay religion designed to acculturate, socialize, and integrate the faith of the masses with the goal of creating a 'new man';"
    Fascism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (there's a whole slew of definitions there, actually, but anti-marxist and anti-left principles are predominant

    an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
    (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
    source: my apple computer's on board dictionary (take that as you will)

    a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
    Fascism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

    a political movement or system characterized mainly by a belief in the supremacy of the chosen national group over all others, and in which there is, typically, state control of all aspects of society, a supreme dictator, suppression of democratic bodies such as trade unions and emphasis on nationalism and militarism.
    www.chambersharrap.co.uk"

    any ideology or movement inspired by Italian Fascism, such as German National Socialism; any right-wing nationalist ideology or movement with an authoritarian and hierarchical structure that is fundamentally opposed to democracy and liberalism
    any ideology, movement, programme, tendency, etc, that may be characterized as right-wing, chauvinist, authoritarian, etc
    Definition of fascism | Collins English Dictionary

    a very right-wing political system in which the government is very powerful and controls the society and the economy completely, not allowing any opposition. Fascism was practised in Italy and Germany in the 1930s and 40s.
    fascism - definition of fascism by Macmillan Dictionary

    a political system based on a very powerful leader, state control, and being extremely proud of country and race, and in which political opposition is not allowed
    Fascism noun - definition in British English Dictionary & Thesaurus - Cambridge Dictionary Online

    A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
    fascism - definition of fascism by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    All of these definitions included descriptions of right wing principles taken to an extreme. All other definitions just focused on the totalitarian aspect, but none at all on singularly left wing principles because it's understood that the extreme of left wing principles is communism.

  5. #195
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Not devolved - started off as such. Never been anything else but totalitarianism.
    This is just a viewpoint without basis, it ignores once again the perspective of removing the worker/proletariat from the constraints of Monarchy and the bourgeoisie.



    No, you are the one who keeps bringing up "left/liberalism". I never use the word "liberalism" in this way - not without the quotation marks.

    I am talking about "Left" as defined by the actual experience of the 20 century. Everybody agreed, for decades, that the Soviets and their client regimes around the world are "the Left". Now out of sudden they are "not representative", event though the polities they have created had embraced 95% of all people who ever called themselves (sincerely or not) "Left".
    Notice something? You have to keep editing out the context of my comments. You do this to change the context of my comments. I was speaking of Stalinist as compared to 2 kids in Amherst, as you were. Now you have tried to change this to "left". The left/liberals were/are not admires of Stalin, especially in present terms as described. So stop with the dishonest editing, stop with the dishonest argument. Get in touch with US poli-sci definitions, come to an understanding as an American, if you are using American terms living in America.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  6. #196
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    I don't have to come around: I was there all the time. And actual liberals ("libertarians") - those scoring very high on both scales - are not "the left", not socialists, and the very polar opposite of the Communists, the Nazis and the Fascists.
    And yet you just got close to understanding that the US left/liberals (and the most extreme,...socialists) are not the totalitarian Stalinist/Communists nor are they the more economically liberal Fascists.

    Again, look at the diagram, learn it, understand it.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  7. #197
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    You are living in the US, stop using confused Euro definitions/translations of American poli-sci terms..
    Unfortunately, in this particular case our definitions are confused (rather: perverted), not theirs. Why call people who are reliably anti-liberal on economic and role-of-the government issues liberals? I have nothing against socialists and social-democrats as an organic part of our political process; I just wish they would stop calling themselves "progressives" and "liberals", when there's precious little progressive or liberal in what they are offering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    If you claim to be libertarian, then you have both free market and socially liberal ideology.
    Yep. Both economically liberal and socially liberal, as in : liberty. Simply "liberal" would do. But no: People who are indifferent or hostile to economic liberties are somehow "liberal". Nonsense.

    (And of course both kinds of freedom are interconnected and inseparable. What use freedom of speech, for example, if the government controls the businesses that print and broadcast?)

  8. #198
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    And yet you just got close to understanding that the US left/liberals (and the most extreme,...socialists) are not the totalitarian Stalinist/Communists.
    When did I ever say that they are?

  9. #199
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Exactly my point. The American expression "economically liberal" is absolutely idiotic, as it is used to describe socialist policies generally hostile to economic freedoms. (While, of course, nowhere as radical, usually, as what Communists did).

    American "liberals" are not liberals. We, so-called libertarians, are.
    You are just mixed up, and you are locked into this silly error. When I say "economically liberal", it means just that, someone who believes in free markets. I don't, I freely admit that I believe in restricting markets since they can be "gamed" by those with lots of economic power. You are confusing it with Liberal economics, where Liberals do want restrictions on markets.
    Then you confuse matters even more by claiming Stalinist Communism was NOT as restrictive as what US Liberals want, this is a total falsehood, a viewpoint void of basis.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  10. #200
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Unfortunately, in this particular case our definitions are confused (rather: perverted), not theirs. Why call people who are reliably anti-liberal on economic and role-of-the government issues liberals? I have nothing against socialists and social-democrats as an organic part of our political process; I just wish they would stop calling themselves "progressives" and "liberals", when there's precious little progressive or liberal in what they are offering.
    Since you leave out the social scale and have the view that "free markets" lead to greater economic freedom for the masses, I'm not surprised you are confused.



    Yep. Both economically liberal and socially liberal, as in : liberty. Simply "liberal" would do. But no: People who are indifferent or hostile to economic liberties are somehow "liberal". Nonsense.
    I'll remind you that Hayek was a great admirer of Pinochet, so even this bastion of Libertarianism had some pretty f'ed up ideas on social freedom.

    (And of course both kinds of freedom are interconnected and inseparable. What use freedom of speech, for example, if the government controls the businesses that print and broadcast?)
    What is the use of "freedom of speech" when the mass media is controlled more and more by monied interests?

    Even "Freedom of speech" has limitations and restrictions, it is not absolute.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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