View Poll Results: Is fascism left or right wing?

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  • Left

    28 23.53%
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    62 52.10%
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    20 16.81%
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    9 7.56%
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Thread: Is Fascism Right Wing?

  1. #181
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Ribbentrop was not beaten up and run out after signing agreements with the Stalinists and designing a plan for joint attack on the countries of Eastern Europe.

    Of course, regimes like those two turn onto each other sooner or later: there can be only one absolute master. But the same is true for the internal power struggles within the certified Communist camp: Stalin murdered Trotsky and his surrounding; the Soviets and the Maoists became bitter enemies; the Khmer Rouge was eventually taken out (thank god for the lesser evils) by the Vietnamese Communists...
    THe actions with the USSR had nothing to do with the internal actions of the NSDAP and brown shirts.

    And remember what happened to the USSR are few months later.........
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  2. #182
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    You claim that the Communists (Bolsheviks) were the force behind the February Revolution. There were not. The imaginary chain of events is yours, not mine.
    They were the MAJORITY, that is what Bolshevik refers to. They WERE Coummunist. To say that Communism had no influence upon the Russian Revolution (and YOU did) is just a complete misreading of history.



    Translation: 6 years suppressing resistance to his brutal totalitarian regime - the "Whites" being conservatives, liberals, Socialist-Revolutionaries, Mensheviks, and just plain anyone with an ounce of conscience and humanity left.
    "In the Russian context, White had three connotations:

    Political contra-distinction to the Reds, whose revolutionary Red Army supported the Bolshevik government;
    Historical reference to absolute monarchy, specifically united under Russia’s first Tsar, Ivan III (1462–1505), styled “Albus Rex” (“White King”); and
    Sartorially, some White Army soldiers wore the white uniforms of Imperial Russia."




    Not true. The NEP continued until 1929, and Stalin was a huge proponent of the NEP, as a tactical, temporary move - in contrast to some resistance from the less pragmatic Trotsky. From contemporary writings of Lenin, it is 100% clear that the "Stalinist" collectivization and industrialization was the eventual goal.

    By the way, the NEP, with the State controlling everything but allowing a good deal of private and cooperative business activities is very similar to the economic setups of the Fascist and Nazi polities. And the convergence continued, when the Nazis had declared their Four-Year Plan and made Goering an economic dictator in 1938. We will never know, but the mixed socialist economy ("military Keynesianism") of the early Nazi period could have been just a phase, like the NEP, on the way to the Soviet-style State domination.
    "Stalin pushed for more rapid industrialization and central control of the economy, contravening Lenin's New Economic Policy (NEP). At the end of 1927, a critical shortfall in grain supplies prompted Stalin to push for the collectivisation of agriculture and order the seizure of grain hoards from kulak farmers.[33][39] Nikolai Bukharin and Premier Alexey Rykov opposed these policies and advocated a return to the NEP, but the rest of the Politburo sided with Stalin and removed Bukharin from the Politburo in November 1929. Rykov was fired the following year and was replaced by Vyacheslav Molotov on Stalin's recommendation"
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #183
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Not really. Fascism is well understood to be generally hostile to left wing principles.
    The Fascism is very poorly understood, if we go by the constant confusion of the Fascism with the Nazism, even on this thread. And, as this thread also testifies, there's a wide range of opinions on what are the "left wing principles", exactly.

  4. #184
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Its more so a horseshoe. The far right and the far left are a lot closer to each other then they are to the respective moderates on either side.
    Except that the Right espouses individual liberty and the Left doesn't.

  5. #185
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    I don't hijack anything. The term "liberal" was hijacked by the American social democrats. We were sort of edited out of existence. Yes, "libertarian" sounds awkward, and immediately suggests some kind of dogmatic radicalism, but that's what we are stuck with.
    The liberals of continental Europe, like the members German FDP or Polish OP call themselves libertarian when talking to Americans, to avoid any misunderstanding.
    You are living in the US, stop using confused Euro definitions/translations of American poli-sci terms. If you claim to be libertarian, then you have both free market and socially liberal ideology. If you don't have socially liberal viewpoints, then you are a US conservative.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  6. #186
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Since Soviet Communism, by your own admission, devolved into totalitarianism ".
    Not devolved - started off as such. Never been anything else but totalitarianism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I have no idea why you keep pointing to it as representative of left/liberalism. .
    No, you are the one who keeps bringing up "left/liberalism". I never use the word "liberalism" in this way - not without the quotation marks.

    I am talking about "Left" as defined by the actual experience of the 20 century. Everybody agreed, for decades, that the Soviets and their client regimes around the world are "the Left". Now out of sudden they are "not representative", event though the polities they have created had embraced 95% of all people who ever called themselves (sincerely or not) "Left".

  7. #187
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    What I don't understand is, why does the Left put up with billionaire/multi-millionaire liberals? Shouldn't you all be earning the exact same wage, with nice big, fat, healthy tax rates on your pay stubs?

  8. #188
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    I object to some "zone markings" there, but you should notice the world "neoliberalism" hovering over the "libertarian" tip, on the left. That's how the European socialists call classical liberals/libertarians, with the implied "Oh no, we thought you are dead and buried!"

    The Stalinists will be at the bottom of the chart, where personal and economic freedoms come to the minimum. The Nazis a tad higher, to the right; the Fascists still a little higher, by both measures. But all three clustered together neatly. I call this zone "far left", you can call it something else.
    LOL....we call that area occupied by the Stalinists: TOTALITARIANS. I have been making this point to you for EVAH. It is not "socially liberal", it is not "economically liberal", just as I have been telling you. I hope you can come around to accepting that we do describe politics via a scale of economic freedom in conjunction with a description of social freedoms.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  9. #189
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I

    How in the world do Communists, particularly Stalinists, get described as "economically liberal"? They wanted total control of all economic conditions, no private profiting, no free market. Stalinists were totalitarian.
    Exactly my point. The American expression "economically liberal" is absolutely idiotic, as it is used to describe socialist policies generally hostile to economic freedoms. (While, of course, nowhere as radical, usually, as what Communists did).

    American "liberals" are not liberals. We, so-called libertarians, are.

  10. #190
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Except that the Right espouses individual liberty and the Left doesn't.
    No, that's what right-wing propaganda has convinced you of. You're thinking authoritarian - libertarian, not left-right.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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