View Poll Results: Is fascism left or right wing?

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    28 23.53%
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    62 52.10%
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    20 16.81%
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Thread: Is Fascism Right Wing?

  1. #151
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Your history is all wrong.

    If a Nazi even talked with a Communist, they would have been beaten up and run out.
    As early as 1933-35 Communists were being put in death camps.
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  2. #152
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Left-wingers believe that government has a significant role to play in society. So in that sense they are similar. But the American left at least believes that the government's role is, among other things, to protect minorities from private oppression. Whereas fascists' goals, like the Nazis, for example, are often to have the government oppress and murder minorities. So in that way they are very very different.

    Social conservatives are the closest we have to fascists in this country, because they believe in broad government power to advance their social goals. I think certain liberals might fall into the category as well, but I can't really think of a large liberal sect that pushes a platform that is seriously oppressive of anyone.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

  3. #153
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucker View Post
    At bottom, no. As they say, those on the wrong side of the gun don't care.

    The very point of this thread is an attempt to revise reality so that some monstrous entity called "the Left" is to blame for every political badness.
    Well, that's just plain silly. If we are to use the cartesian grid common in most "what's your political persuasion" tests the answer to this question would be neither Right or Left but Authoritarian as opposed to libertarian ( not the party, obviously)

    All political badness stems from the few trying to control the many, or the many trying to control the few. We all need to just learn to control ourselves.

  4. #154
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Well, that's just plain silly. If we are to use the cartesian grid common in most "what's your political persuasion" tests the answer to this question would be neither Right or Left but Authoritarian as opposed to libertarian ( not the party, obviously)

    All political badness stems from the few trying to control the many, or the many trying to control the few. We all need to just learn to control ourselves.
    Hear, hear.
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
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  5. #155
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indeed View Post
    ...Our history class taught that the Nazi party of Germany had a meeting with the Communist Party of Germany to discuss a number of things starting on what slogans would be and what category they would say they were. Fascists were very much left wing, but they looked like right wing extremists compared to the communists, so they decided to call the communists left wing and call the fascists right wing to avoid confusion.
    Okay, I have to admit, this made me laugh pretty ****ing hard.

    Anywho...no, you're so ****ing wrong it's goddamn adorable, and your wrongness is based in your absolute lack of knowledge of what divides the "left" and "right" wing groups.

  6. #156
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    In a tradionalist political science sense, Fascism is generally regarded as "right wing" to an utter extreme. Attempting to compare it as some kind of analog or similar thing to modern american conservatism would be like trying to compare a mid-major Basketball team with the Chicago Bulls of the 90's. It's an emotional bit of hyperbole used as a political bludgeon without regard to common sense.

    Take the standard Nolan Chart that's often referenced, or just take the general mindset of it. I prefer it to the standard "left" / "right" idea. Everythings based off a two part scale in terms of Economic Freedom and Social Freedom (or the focus on community vs focus on individual).

    Here's a general view of it



    In this, Facism would be in the lower portion, probably in the bottom right portion of that section.

    Here's a very interesting take on some of the various types of ideologies commonly thought about in the U.S. as well as the extreme ends for each side.


  7. #157
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Left-wingers believe that government has a significant role to play in society. So in that sense they are similar. But the American left at least believes that the government's role is, among other things, to protect minorities from private oppression. Whereas fascists' goals, like the Nazis, for example, are often to have the government oppress and murder minorities. So in that way they are very very different.

    Social conservatives are the closest we have to fascists in this country, because they believe in broad government power to advance their social goals. I think certain liberals might fall into the category as well, but I can't really think of a large liberal sect that pushes a platform that is seriously oppressive of anyone.
    When you look over the whole political agenda of Italian fascists and Nazis it becomes clear what they most resemble. They advocated central control of the economy and the monetary system, cradle to grave welfare, guaranteed employment, central control of labor unions, redistribution of land and other resources held by the previous ruling classes, and abolition of class differences. Corporations were allowed to continue to operate but had to follow the direction of the state with regard to what was best for the nation. Authority was invested in a leader with plenary powers to do whatever was necessary to correct the problems that both nations faced before the fascists came to power. Racism is held up as a key feature of fascism but didn't exist in Italian fascism until the Nazis allied with them. Militarism and nationalism were central to both Italian and German varieties but became strong features of the USSR as well eventually with 70% of resources going to the military even up to the end of the USSR.

    By the time the Nazis came to power in Germany there were no actual conservatives anywhere to be seen except the monarchists and aristocrats who retained their roles in the military because of their expertise. These people had to toe the political line under pain of death.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  8. #158
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    When you look over the whole political agenda of Italian fascists and Nazis it becomes clear what they most resemble.

    But again, this is no argument that they were leftists.

    It's only an argument that the Right shares some perverse political inclinations.
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
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  9. #159
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucker View Post
    No. That's just a residue of the Hate-the-Left Cold War nonsense.
    not at all. Fascism was (falsely) popularly associated with the right wing throughout the Cold War.

    Like the "People's Republic of China"?



    Tells us nothing.
    On the contrary - both speak to intents. Peoples' Republic is just the nicer version of Dictatorship of the Proletariat.

  10. #160
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    not at all. Fascism was (falsely) popularly associated with the right wing throughout the Cold War.
    That's why I said "residue."

    In recent years, we've all seen some attempts to redefine history so that this thing called "conservatism" is pristine...at least theoretically; whereas some entity called "leftism" is always and inherently about the worst kinds of statist tyranny.

    Now, I have elsewhere on this thread pointed out the fantastic tautologies that arise out of this self-indulgence.

    Also the abhorrence of taking any sort of responsibility...why bother, when shouting "The Left!" will suffice?

    Hell, we've got people saying that when the political Right, in power, acts in authoritarian ways (a not infrequent occurrance, I presume you'll agree)
    ...that it's because they're actually "leftists."

    Meaning that right-wing political power simply doesn't exist, presumably...which rather changes the conversation into something else, I think.

    Except that, according to many on the right, it does exist...as when Thatcher and a few other moral relativists praised Pinochet. The theme seems to be "a little too harsh [I assume they're speaking of mass murder, torture, et al]...but a useful and effective adherence to free market principles and a robust protection of social conservative values."

    Well, it puts me in an odd posiiton to argue with conservatives that murder and torture are not strictly "conservative values"; but more to the point, Pinochet did not adhere to "free market principles." Killing your opponents, jailing socialist intellectuals and left-leaning peasants, and torturing union leaders is interference in the "free market," by definition. Big Government statism.

    At any rate, you could, I suppose, say that everything bad about the man was his "leftism" which no one else has recognized; and that what was good about him--zero--constitutes his "conservatism."


    All this is to say that, when the political right goes authoritarian and oppressive, that doesn't make them the political left. It makes them the political right behaving abominably.

    As with lefties, the right is what the right does.
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
    --Vladimir Nabokov

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