View Poll Results: Is fascism left or right wing?

Voters
119. You may not vote on this poll
  • Left

    28 23.53%
  • Right

    62 52.10%
  • Neither

    20 16.81%
  • Description sucks

    9 7.56%
Page 15 of 34 FirstFirst ... 5131415161725 ... LastLast
Results 141 to 150 of 340

Thread: Is Fascism Right Wing?

  1. #141
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    08-04-13 @ 05:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    459

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Nabokov was anywhere close to "progressive"? Rachmaninoff? (Who challenged some hapless fellow to a duel over a semantic muddle concerning the word "revolutionary") Stravinsky?

    Yes, a whole bunch of German emigrants held views nearly identical to the views of the Nazis - except for the anti-Semitic part - because they were Jewish. So, they had cheered for the Other Twin (whose own anti-Semitism did not become obvious until some two decades later).

    But notice the difference: Those are the people who had escaped - before the most terrible event in known history had provided the ultimate clarity. Those of us who were not so lucky have no excuse to delude ourselves.
    This doesn't seem to be the case. Jewish political activism--and the Jewish vote--have consistently been liberal (I mean in the contemporary vernacular)/leftist, including in the darkest part of the fascist and communist interregnum.
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
    --Vladimir Nabokov

  2. #142
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    08-04-13 @ 05:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    459

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Begging the question: Is there really such thing as "the right-wing reactionary"? If we have identical phenomena described by "opposite" terms, shouldn't we drop one of the terms? I don't mind if you say that ALL totalitarian, extreme-statist regime were "actually right-wing", or (as I prefer, for "sentimental reasons") that they were all "actually left-wing".

    Well, I am not making the claim that all totlaitarian governments were right-wing. I think a case can be made that tyrannies--which after all rule over the messy complexities of human societies--have inherent to them both leftish and rightish values.

    But it makes no sense to declare one "left", and its near-perfect copy "right".
    Perhaps not. But you're assuming agreement that homophobia, anti-semitism, anti-immigration et al are specifically and only of the Left. I think it's obviously false.

    Again...unless there is really no such thing as active agents called "conservative."
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
    --Vladimir Nabokov

  3. #143
    Guru
    Cyrylek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boston
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    With all that, and you think the only philosophical differences between Nazism and Socialism is Jews?
    With all due respect to Jews, they did not make it, as the "philosophical difference": a vicious anti-Semitic campaign was underway in the USSR, by the time of Stalin's death. Jewish celebrities were assassinated or "disappeared", people with "funny last names" were arrested on most improbable charges, and a whole "Jewish Autonomous Region" was designated in - - - the eastern Siberia - any translation needed?

    The "difference" was only in emphasis on particulars and in the phase of development.

  4. #144
    Guru
    Cyrylek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boston
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucker View Post
    This doesn't seem to be the case. Jewish political activism--and the Jewish vote--have consistently been liberal (I mean in the contemporary vernacular)/leftist, including in the darkest part of the fascist and communist interregnum.
    Ludwig von Mises - or Ayn Rand, for that matter - what are they, chopped liver? (as they say in Brooklyn).

    For obvious reasons, Jews had been represented disproportionally in the intellectual class of the early 20th century. And that class was generally infected with the socialist "memes".

    Doesn't mean that any particular Jew who barely escaped a Nazi gas camera would admire the intent behind a Makarov pressed against the back of his head.

  5. #145
    Guru
    Cyrylek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boston
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucker View Post
    you're assuming agreement that homophobia, anti-semitism, anti-immigration et al are specifically and only of the Left. I think it's obviously false.
    I am assuming nothing. I am trying to give some meaning to familiar but extremely vague labels. The complexity of real life is one thing; the contradictory, illogical definitions is another.

  6. #146
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    08-04-13 @ 05:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    459

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Ludwig von Mises - or Ayn Rand, for that matter - what are they, chopped liver? (as they say in Brooklyn).
    I wouldn't insult chopped liver by associating it with Rand's name.

    But no, I didn't mean to suggest it was universal by any means. Only that diaspora Jews, particularly in the United States, tend far more towards the Left than towards the Right...it's not even close.

    It was true in 1930. And it remains true today.

    For obvious reasons, Jews had been represented disproportionally in the intellectual class of the early 20th century. And that class was generally infected with the socialist "memes".
    And what of 2013?

    At any rate, some conservative Jews (Podhoretz, Jonah Goldberg, some others) have tried to explain it using, yes, your point, also some ruminations on the the effect of the gospels on Jewish moral and intellectual life, etc.

    I don't pretend to know why American Jews remain the most progressive of any identified grouping in the country, nor do I demand that it means something fundamental, although it might.

    I was only replying to the idea (which I thought implied...forgive me if I'm mistaken) that anyone who suffered under the Nazis or the Soviets would be likley to eschew leftist politics.

    That doesn't appear to be the case.
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
    --Vladimir Nabokov

  7. #147
    Finite and Precious
    Jredbaron96's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    With you.
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 11:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,108
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    (Assuming most are answering here based on the American standard of Right vs Left)

    To the people who put right Wing, you do realize that Fascism is for state controlled industries, right?

    And for the people who selected Left Wing, you do realize Fascism is based on nationalism, militarism and imperialism?

    To argue that fascism is clearly a left wing or right wing ideology is stupid. Fascists are opposed to socialism, communism, traditional conservatism, and liberal democracies. If they fit anywhere on the American scale, they are centrists.
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
    -FDR

  8. #148
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    08-04-13 @ 05:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    459

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    (Assuming most are answering here based on the American standard of Right vs Left)

    To the people who put right Wing, you do realize that Fascism is for state controlled industries, right?

    And for the people who selected Left Wing, you do realize Fascism is based on nationalism, militarism and imperialism?

    To argue that fascism is clearly a left wing or right wing ideology is stupid. Fascists are opposed to socialism, communism, traditional conservatism, and liberal democracies. If they fit anywhere on the American scale, they are centrists.

    To your credit, one of the scholars of fascism whom I cited earlier made a similar point; I think he called them "radical centrists" or some such thing.
    Last edited by Strucker; 05-22-13 at 09:20 AM.
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
    --Vladimir Nabokov

  9. #149
    Relentless Thinking Fury
    ChezC3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Chicago
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:37 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    9,239

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    If we all can agree that Fascism is bad, does it matter if it's Left or Right?

  10. #150
    Advisor
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    08-04-13 @ 05:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    459

    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    If we all can agree that Fascism is bad, does it matter if it's Left or Right?
    At bottom, no. As they say, those on the wrong side of the gun don't care.

    The very point of this thread is an attempt to revise reality so that some monstrous entity called "the Left" is to blame for every political badness.
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
    --Vladimir Nabokov

Page 15 of 34 FirstFirst ... 5131415161725 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •