View Poll Results: Is fascism left or right wing?

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Thread: Is Fascism Right Wing?

  1. #121
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It's also worth pointing out that (as I recall) Engels split from Marx in this and a couple of other items. Marx was very much about the dictatorship of the proletariat - and you don't get a dictatorship without the state organs through which you can do your dictating.
    The "dictatorship of the proletariat" (translation: absolute power of the self-appointed State bureaucracies) was implied by Marx, but made into the central ideological point by Lenin - to the horror of the other Marxists - Mensheviks (they were put out of their misery soon enough), and especially grotesque in a country that was 90% peasant at the time.

  2. #122
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    National Socialism is indeed left wing.
    No. That's just a residue of the Hate-the-Left Cold War nonsense.

    Hence the socialism portion of that identifier.

    Like the "People's Republic of China"?



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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    The "dictatorship of the proletariat" (translation: absolute power of the self-appointed State bureaucracies) was implied by Marx, but made into the central ideological point by Lenin - to the horror of the other Marxists - Mensheviks (they were put out of their misery soon enough), and especially grotesque in a country that was 90% peasant at the time.
    Yes, and it's odd that the internal animosity to Lenin is so little well-known, when the information is freely available. The revolutionaries despised Lenin, and there were dark forecasts about his dictatorial tendencies....forecasts that were plainly accurate.
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucker View Post
    So, if the political Right opposes Big government, they would of course oppose the death penalty, for starters...
    I do. Totally. May I now continue to think of myself as (1) far right wing, (2) real (classical) liberal (aka libertarian), and (3) a consistent opponent of the extreme far-left ideologies, such as Communism, Nazism and Fascism?

  5. #125
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indeed View Post
    In school, I was taught that fascism was not in fact right wing, but compared to American Government, it was very much left wing. Our history class taught that the Nazi party of Germany had a meeting with the Communist Party of Germany to discuss a number of things starting on what slogans would be and what category they would say they were. Fascists were very much left wing, but they looked like right wing extremists compared to the communists, so they decided to call the communists left wing and call the fascists right wing to avoid confusion.
    Fascism is left wing because you cannot own a business or large home if you don't toe the line that the ruling party draws.. If you don't toe the line, they take your business and give it to someone who will. It is far right of either communism or socialism in that it allows private property at all. In socialism the government owns all the business and makes sure that everyone is paid equally, and in communism the gov't owns everything and makes sure that everyone has everything they need.
    So fascism is far right of communism but still pretty far left of American conservatism. It's somewhere in the middle.
    When considering whether or not fascism is right-wing, it's important to remember the ideals of communism, which is an extreme left-wing ideology.

    Communism espouses a government that uses its power to enforce a population without economic classes by having a democratic government control all the means of production and resources to be allocated to the population according to needs. By doing away with economic inequalities, inequalities in other areas, such as class, race,and gender, will be done away with. In this way, the whole world may enjoy total equality with each other. This makes the ideals of communism an extremely inclusive ideology.

    Fascism, on the other hand, espouses different ideologies. Fascism uses government power so that those in control of government may dictate to others. The reason for this is because only by having a strong government that mandates unity can a nation be strong enough to act, especially against national enemies. Fascism also holds that the population of their nation is of more importance than the populations of other nations. This makes fascism an extremely exclusive ideology. Fascism also tends to hold that others may be exploited for the benefit of that nation.

    Those are the main differences between communism and fascism that characterizes communism as left-wing and fascism as right-wing.

    Now, both ideologies are statist. But those two ideologies have different goals in how state power should be used.

    Also, when people think "communist" they tend to think of Leninist and Stalinist communism, which is much closer to fascism because they were authoritarian dictators who used government power for their own ends and used it to exploit others. This is why most people who advocate the original ideals of communism - economic equality through a democratic government - often label themselves as socialists, especially democratic socialists, in order to make the distinction clear.
    Also, we need to legalize recreational drugs and prostitution.

  6. #126
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Sure, but who started "the whole revisionism thing", and when?

    Why, indeed, the socially conservative, totalitarian, anti-capitalist, nationalist, militarist police state of the Fascist Italy is "right wing", and the EVEN MORE socially conservative, totalitarian, anti-capitalist, nationalist, militarist police state of the Soviet Russia is "left wing"?
    Because of the philosophies driving the socially conservative, totalitarian, anti-capitalist, nationalist, militarist police states.

    We're talking philosophies, not realities.
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  7. #127
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucker View Post
    The revolutionaries despised Lenin, and there were dark forecasts about his dictatorial tendencies....forecasts that were plainly accurate.
    That is correct. The Revolution - that the uneasy coalition of liberals (Vladimir Nabokov's father among most prominent), constitutional monarchists, moderate socialists etc - had achieved after long decades of struggle against all odds - that Revolution was stabbed in the back, murdered by a small but exceptionally brutal and efficient gang of opportunists - leading to long decades of nightmare for Russia and too many countries around the world to count.

  8. #128
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    We're talking philosophies, not realities.
    Sure. And the major difference in philosophies boiled down to "Unless he is a Jew". Disappearing altogether by the time of the anti-Semitic campaign of the early 1950s in the USSR.

  9. #129
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Sure. And the major difference in philosophies boiled down to "Unless he is a Jew". Disappearing altogether by the time of the anti-Semitic campaign of the early 1950s in the USSR.
    Keep telling yourself that.
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  10. #130
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    The only people I have seen get really vocal about denying the reality that fascism is a philosophy of the right are current people also on the right who resent the connection as it is perceived that it does some damage to them.

    The minor internet crusade to detach fascism from the right wing seems more of a defense mechanism than anything else. The American right wing confuses their loathing of government in the current day with a strong right wing government in the past. They badly want to pretend that since fascism had a very strong and powerful government that it could not be what they identify as the far right. Its the No True Scotsman fallacy on steroids.
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-22-13 at 07:58 AM.
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