View Poll Results: Is fascism left or right wing?

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Thread: Is Fascism Right Wing?

  1. #111
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post

    Fascism and Communism have two very different political structures, one has massive power to the state, the other doesn't have anything but a state

    Fixed your statement for you
    Precisely. People keep quoting Engels, about " withering away of the state", without realizing what was actually meant: The mythical scientific - and perfectly coercive - management of every imaginable economic and social process is supposed to become so automatic at some point, there will be no difference between the State and the Society. A machine is a machine. In any approximation to reality, it is not the State that withers away - it is everything else.

  2. #112
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Of course it's Right Wing. What an odd question.
    Only if you accept popular labels without any attempt at allowing words to have some consistent meaning.

  3. #113
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Only if you accept popular labels without any attempt at allowing words to have some consistent meaning.
    Popular meaning conventional?

    Were they unpopular, how likely is it that they'd be consistent?

    I'm not down with the whole revisionism thing. It reeks of agenda and faddism.

  4. #114
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    National Socialism is indeed left wing. Hence the socialism portion of that identifier. Fascists are corporatists - they believe in the government controlling large, public utility like industries. Private ownership, but public control, of the means of production.

    They might be able to blend in with conservatives in Europe, where conservatism can mean something very different. In American terms, however, Conservatives are closer to your 18th Century Liberals - a series of positions that Fascists would find anathema.

  5. #115
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Precisely. People keep quoting Engels, about " withering away of the state", without realizing what was actually meant: The mythical scientific - and perfectly coercive - management of every imaginable economic and social process is supposed to become so automatic at some point, there will be no difference between the State and the Society. A machine is a machine. In any approximation to reality, it is not the State that withers away - it is everything else.
    It's also worth pointing out that (as I recall) Engels split from Marx in this and a couple of other items. Marx was very much about the dictatorship of the proletariat - and you don't get a dictatorship without the state organs through which you can do your dictating.

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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    National Socialism is indeed left wing. Hence the socialism portion of that identifier. Fascists are corporatists - they believe in the government controlling large, public utility like industries. Private ownership, but public control, of the means of production.

    They might be able to blend in with conservatives in Europe, where conservatism can mean something very different. In American terms, however, Conservatives are closer to your 18th Century Liberals - a series of positions that Fascists would find anathema.
    Bold: There is no facepalm to ever do this statement justice.

  7. #117
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Only if you accept popular labels without any attempt at allowing words to have some consistent meaning.
    The only inconsistency is the American right's attempt to rewrite history. Their reinterpretation of fascism is unique.
    Don't work out, work in.

    Never eat anything that's served in a bucket.

  8. #118
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    Bold: There is no facepalm to ever do this statement justice.
    is that your way of saying that you have no actual method of response?

    I realize it's popular to identify Fascism as right wing. After all, there wasn't really a conservative movement in America in the end of the 40's, so it was safe to associate them with it. Just like no one had ever been a eugenicist after 1944, suddenly no one had ever admired fascism, either.

    Unfortunately, all those records are still around. Progressives in this country were very much on the same ideological wavelength as the fascists in Europe. It was and remains a left-wing ideology. The one poster on these forums honest enough to identify himself as a fascist is pretty much clear on this point - which is why his actual identifier reads "progressive".

  9. #119
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by NoC_T View Post
    I'm not down with the whole revisionism thing. It reeks of agenda and faddism.
    Sure, but who started "the whole revisionism thing", and when?

    Why, indeed, the socially conservative, totalitarian, anti-capitalist, nationalist, militarist police state of the Fascist Italy is "right wing", and the EVEN MORE socially conservative, totalitarian, anti-capitalist, nationalist, militarist police state of the Soviet Russia is "left wing"?

  10. #120
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    Re: Is Fascism Right Wing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The only inconsistency is the American right's attempt to rewrite history. Their reinterpretation of fascism is unique.
    You are very mistaken. Very few people who were actually exposed to Fascism - or, worse, Nazism - and Communism (like, most of the Eastern Europe) fail to recognize their near-identical nature.

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