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Thread: If Obama knew....

  1. #21
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    To be fair, pretty much all of Congress knew that the IRS Inspector General was investigating concerns that Congressmen and Senators reported to him related to this issue. None of them had, in July 2012, any proof that anything systemic was actually happening, they just had anecdotal evidence from concerned constituents. It wasn't until about 10 to 12 days ago when an official of the IRS let the cat out of the bag when she realized the Inspector General was about to issue a scathing report against the IRS's actions that proof was ascertained and became public knowledge.

    So, again, the real issue is not who knew in July 2012 that the IRS Inspector General was investigating. The real issue is who in the administration knew in 2010 and 2011 that this was standard practice in the IRS and who actually initiated the process.
    What if Obama learned about this at the same time as everyone else.

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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Down with the King.
    "When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
    Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Perhaps you're on to something but isn't the issue who knew about the activities of the IRS and didn't disclose them not who knew they were being investigated?
    Heya CJ .....I think looking into the Democrats may give some insight. Even Huff-Po knew.

    IRS Scandal Puts Dems Who Called For Investigation Of Conservative Group In A Bind

    During the fall months of 2010, congressional Democrats grew increasingly alarmed that conservative non-profit groups, backed by big-money donors, would tip the scales of the upcoming election.

    Many of the groups were filing for 501(c)(4) status, which allowed them to keep donors secret but forced them into policy advocacy -- not political campaigning -- as their primary activity. And Democrats, facing the prospect of tens of millions of dollars being spent against them, complained that these groups were hardly the "social welfare organizations" they claimed to be.

    On Sept. 29, 2010, Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) sounded the alarm. The chair of the influential Senate Finance Committee, which plays an important oversight role of the tax code, said he had "serious questions about whether such organizations are operating in compliance with the Internal Revenue Code."

    The IRS, it turns out, took those concerns seriously. But in the process of addressing them, the tax agency managed to make itself the scandal.

    When the truth was revealed this past week, the political world pounced. And among the first to express umbrage was Baucus.

    These actions by the IRS are an outrageous abuse of power and a breach of the public’s trust," said the Montana Democrat. "Targeting groups based on their political views is not only inappropriate but it is intolerable."

    One and a half years after Baucus' letter, Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) sent one of his own to the IRS urging the agency to "investigate whether any groups qualifying as social welfare organizations under section 501(c)(4) of the federal tax code are improperly engaged in political campaign activity." In a press release announcing that letter, Welch specifically cited Crossroads GPS, "the Karl Rove-backed group" as a potential violator of the law.

    "This is a disaster for its reputation and it is no different than the Nixon use of the IRS to go after political enemies," he said. "You just can't do that. It sets them back, but it doesn't change their obligation to the American people to enforce the Internal Revenue Service code."

    Welch's 2012 letter was one of several that Democratic lawmakers sent to the IRS. Sens. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), Tom Udall (D-N.M.), Michael Bennet (D-Colo.), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), Al Franken (D-Minn.), and Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) also asked the agency if it intended to investigate these "social welfare" organizations. In a floor speech in September 2012, Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) warned that there was insufficient regulation of these groups. His select investigative committee also announced earlier this year that it would look into why the IRS had failed to properly probe such 501(c)(4) groups. It's unclear if the investigation will now shape up.

    Those senators were cheered on by liberal-leaning outlets, which also urged the IRS to play an active role. A New York Times editorial on May 7, 2012 said, "taxpayers should be encouraged by complaints from Tea Party chapters" that they were being targeted by the IRS. The paper went on to say that the IRS should be applying more scrutiny, "across the board."

    About one year later, after the IRS had apologized for its filtering, the Times editorial page wrote that the IRS had been "absolutely correct to look into the abuse of the tax code." The mistake, it added, was applying the criteria it did.

    "Clearly Senate Democrats recognize their own political vulnerability on this story and they're working furiously to get ahead of it. But that doesn't change the fact that they publicly pressured the IRS to engage in the very tactics they're now condemning, and that's a contradiction that will haunt them politically in the weeks ahead," said Brian Walsh, a former top spokesman for the National Republican Senatorial Committee. "I'm not holding my breath but it would be an appropriate act of bravery and candor if the IRS asked Max Baucus why he's not sitting at the witness table next to them during these upcoming hearings.".....snip~

    IRS Scandal Puts Dems Who Called For Investigation Of Conservative Group In A Bind

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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    What if Obama learned about this at the same time as everyone else.
    It would make no difference to the fright-wing. This is their 2013 version of 2009.

  5. #25
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    What if Obama learned about this at the same time as everyone else.
    Then he's home free, presuming none of his surrogates asked for it to be done on his behalf.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  6. #26
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Heya CJ .....I think looking into the Democrats may give some insight. Even Huff-Po knew.

    IRS Scandal Puts Dems Who Called For Investigation Of Conservative Group In A Bind

    During the fall months of 2010, congressional Democrats grew increasingly alarmed that conservative non-profit groups, backed by big-money donors, would tip the scales of the upcoming election.

    Many of the groups were filing for 501(c)(4) status, which allowed them to keep donors secret but forced them into policy advocacy -- not political campaigning -- as their primary activity. And Democrats, facing the prospect of tens of millions of dollars being spent against them, complained that these groups were hardly the "social welfare organizations" they claimed to be.

    On Sept. 29, 2010, Sen. Max Baucus (D-Mont.) sounded the alarm. The chair of the influential Senate Finance Committee, which plays an important oversight role of the tax code, said he had "serious questions about whether such organizations are operating in compliance with the Internal Revenue Code."

    The IRS, it turns out, took those concerns seriously. But in the process of addressing them, the tax agency managed to make itself the scandal.

    When the truth was revealed this past week, the political world pounced. And among the first to express umbrage was Baucus.

    These actions by the IRS are an outrageous abuse of power and a breach of the public’s trust," said the Montana Democrat. "Targeting groups based on their political views is not only inappropriate but it is intolerable."

    One and a half years after Baucus' letter, Rep. Peter Welch (D-Vt.) sent one of his own to the IRS urging the agency to "investigate whether any groups qualifying as social welfare organizations under section 501(c)(4) of the federal tax code are improperly engaged in political campaign activity." In a press release announcing that letter, Welch specifically cited Crossroads GPS, "the Karl Rove-backed group" as a potential violator of the law.

    "This is a disaster for its reputation and it is no different than the Nixon use of the IRS to go after political enemies," he said. "You just can't do that. It sets them back, but it doesn't change their obligation to the American people to enforce the Internal Revenue Service code."

    Welch's 2012 letter was one of several that Democratic lawmakers sent to the IRS. Sens. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), Tom Udall (D-N.M.), Michael Bennet (D-Colo.), Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.), Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.), Al Franken (D-Minn.), and Jeff Merkley (D-Ore.) also asked the agency if it intended to investigate these "social welfare" organizations. In a floor speech in September 2012, Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) warned that there was insufficient regulation of these groups. His select investigative committee also announced earlier this year that it would look into why the IRS had failed to properly probe such 501(c)(4) groups. It's unclear if the investigation will now shape up.

    Those senators were cheered on by liberal-leaning outlets, which also urged the IRS to play an active role. A New York Times editorial on May 7, 2012 said, "taxpayers should be encouraged by complaints from Tea Party chapters" that they were being targeted by the IRS. The paper went on to say that the IRS should be applying more scrutiny, "across the board."

    About one year later, after the IRS had apologized for its filtering, the Times editorial page wrote that the IRS had been "absolutely correct to look into the abuse of the tax code." The mistake, it added, was applying the criteria it did.

    "Clearly Senate Democrats recognize their own political vulnerability on this story and they're working furiously to get ahead of it. But that doesn't change the fact that they publicly pressured the IRS to engage in the very tactics they're now condemning, and that's a contradiction that will haunt them politically in the weeks ahead," said Brian Walsh, a former top spokesman for the National Republican Senatorial Committee. "I'm not holding my breath but it would be an appropriate act of bravery and candor if the IRS asked Max Baucus why he's not sitting at the witness table next to them during these upcoming hearings.".....snip~

    IRS Scandal Puts Dems Who Called For Investigation Of Conservative Group In A Bind
    Good afternoon MMC - another well presented post!
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  7. #27
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    It's worth impeachment just to show that a President can't pull a a shrug and say "I don't know what my administration is doing."
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

  8. #28
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    Lemme just say that even if we were to begin the impeachment process, look at his senate. Not even worth the time fellas.
    It takes 67 Aye votes to convict any president of impeachment. This means along with the 44 Republicans, it would have to garner 23 Democratic votes. There has to be a whole lot of there, there and as of now there isn't. I also think most Americans who are not die hard Republicans or Democrats will take a lot of convincing especially since the GOP made a mockery of the impeachment process during the Clinton administration.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

  9. #29
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    It's worth impeaching cuz he's obamy. Not a mod stance. Never did he saying what is being quoted. All POTUS's would be impeached by an Issa-type. Boehner's revenge will lead to his failed legacy.

  10. #30
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    If Obama knew what the IRS was doing to conservative groups and allowed it to occur, would you support going forward with impeachment?
    The IRS wasn't doing anything illegal, they were just enforcing the tax code.

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