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Thread: If Obama knew....

  1. #171
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Quik View Post
    Not even close.



    Murdering people is objectively worse than targeting them for tax purposes.

    Killing people would be worse than targeting them for "tax purposes" provided that those who were killed had not declared themselves enemies of the United States and gave support to organizations who intend to murder citizens of the US and engage in wanton destruction within the US. Those who do so have warranted removing the safety on the "gun" that may be used to kill them. The actual use of deadly force against them is a point of some controversy. What should have been done for the filers of the 501(c) 4s was within say 3 mths the IRS would give provisional approval but notify them that they cannot engage in advocacy of any political candidate or Party including notifying their members on what politicians support what or what members of Congress were supporting the issues that concerned their organization. Also any advocacy that they have done before approval would be subject to taxation. The IRS did not do that instead they requested info that the IRS was not entitled to such as donor lists and member lists, they requested copies of information including all Facebook posts on their Facebook account, some were further targeted by FBI and BATF as part of the investigation. This made the approval process take years.

    The use of police powers against the Citizenry to suppress their Right of Assembly and to Petition the Government for a Redress of Greviences is more severe due to the numbers affected and due to ablity to limit the destrcutive effects brought by government. Indeed the killing of these four people may only be addressed by such petitions and assemblies and then can put and end to it. It is a matter of scope, if the President exceeded his authority in the killings we can address the issue in Petitions in Congress as long as we can keep that Right and not have it suborned by a President that is continuing down a path that leads to a Police State and where unapproved ideas and speech is silenced.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  2. #172
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    That would have to translate that Obama knew that they were selecting "conservative" groups and not looking for fraudulent Non_Profits that were actually politically oriented groups.
    It is a given in this OP that Obama knew and that "conservative" groups were targeted.



    It is all about hiding donor names in paperwork and there are no good guys involved.
    Per the rules regulating 501(c) 4s the donor lists may be kept secret as well the member lists.



    The mountain builders are working like beavers to inflate this molehill.

    It is more like we have this mountain and who's fault is it.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  3. #173
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Killing people would be worse than targeting them for "tax purposes" provided that those who were killed had not declared themselves enemies of the United States and gave support to organizations who intend to murder citizens of the US and engage in wanton destruction within the US. Those who do so have warranted removing the safety on the "gun" that may be used to kill them. The actual use of deadly force against them is a point of some controversy.
    Innocent victims of pointless wars are still innocent victims of pointless wars. Killing these innocent victims in pointless wars is murder, and murder is worse than targeted taxation.

    What should have been done for the filers of the 501(c) 4s was within say 3 mths the IRS would give provisional approval but notify them that they cannot engage in advocacy of any political candidate or Party including notifying their members on what politicians support what or what members of Congress were supporting the issues that concerned their organization. Also any advocacy that they have done before approval would be subject to taxation. The IRS did not do that instead they requested info that the IRS was not entitled to such as donor lists and member lists, they requested copies of information including all Facebook posts on their Facebook account, some were further targeted by FBI and BATF as part of the investigation. This made the approval process take years.

    The use of police powers against the Citizenry to suppress their Right of Assembly and to Petition the Government for a Redress of Greviences is more severe due to the numbers affected and due to ablity to limit the destrcutive effects brought by government. Indeed the killing of these four people may only be addressed by such petitions and assemblies and then can put and end to it. It is a matter of scope, if the President exceeded his authority in the killings we can address the issue in Petitions in Congress as long as we can keep that Right and not have it suborned by a President that is continuing down a path that leads to a Police State and where unapproved ideas and speech is silenced.
    Your argument that taxation is worse than murder is very, very flimsy. Almost comical.

  4. #174
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    If Obama knew what the IRS was doing to conservative groups and allowed it to occur, would you support going forward with impeachment?
    What? No.

    Everyone should have known (even without any empirical evidence) and nobody should have cared (even with evidence), including the groups targeted.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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  5. #175
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    innocent victims? murder in war?

    People tend to define words to suit their own prejudices rather than use accepted meanings of terms.

    Murder is unlawfully taking anothers life.

    While there are war crimes, killing enemy in war is not unlawfull and not murder. Neither is executing criminals murder, since it's lawfull.

    As to innocents in a war zone? Impossible to determine. Normally in war EVERY citizen of an enemy nation is an enemy. That philosophy justified atomic bombs on Japan and fire bombing German cities.

    I could make a case, that women are soldier factorys, and children the next wave, in a few years, but I won't.

    The ONLY sentiment that makes sense to me is avoid war if possible. It's not nice or pretty. But if you MUST go to war, use overwhelming ruthless force and get it over quickly.

    I fought in Vietnam, 68-69 during and after Tet. The fiercest fighting of that war. So, I've some experience to base my opinion on.
    If you live long enough, you will live in a foreign country, because the past is foreign to the present. We lived differently then. The only constant is change!

  6. #176
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Yeah.

    But Given that the Obama administration is actually focusing on The IRS scandal to me indicates that they believe their hands are clean.
    It's a better scandal (and they can sacrifice Lois Lerner) than the Benghazi lies, that is for sure.

  7. #177
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    There never will be evidence. BHO is a ghost.
    Hmmmm........reminds me more of a stain, or maybe a Shadow, but unlike the real Shadow [ of, "who knows? the Shadow knows" fame ], this Shadow only knows of the stuff he should know after he reads of it in press reports... which is ironic that he is doing so much to illegally shut down the gathering of this information by the AP and Fox news gatherers...
    Last edited by Gaugingcatenate; 05-25-13 at 06:58 AM.

  8. #178
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaugingcatenate View Post
    Hmmmm........reminds me more of a stain, or maybe a Shadow, but unlike the real Shadow [ of, "who knows? the Shadow knows" fame ], this Shadow only knows of the stuff he should know after he reads of it in press reports... which is ironic that he is doing so much to illegally shut down the gathering of this information by the AP and Fox news gatherers...
    Perhaps. I think he's more like a poltergeist than anything else.

  9. #179
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by roughdraft274 View Post
    That does not show where I said that "CEOs, Presidents, Owners, should never be held accoutable for what they allow their subordinates to do."

    Again, I refer you to that whole reading thing we discussed earlier.
    Just be respectable and admit what you said instead of saying it and then backing out of it

  10. #180
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by mak2 View Post
    No, I am not kidding you, IF it has been what is IT? Simple questions, no answers. You are in an outrage and dont even know why.
    And like most partisan sheep you are avoiding the subject, Congratulations, I will add you to the ignore list with the rest of your herd

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