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Thread: If Obama knew....

  1. #161
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    You are the only one who is bringing out the tax cheat point. I have not heard this in the media reports that they are tax cheats in fact or implied.
    Waitaminute. Isn't the IRS Supposed to Watch Out for Tax Cheats? | Crooks and Liars

  2. #162
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Their methods were probably unconstitutional, hence the apology. But the government does unconstitutional things all the time, usually they are pretty shameless. What is different about this? Only selective outrage by the tea party trying to gin up a scandal by loudly complaining and making insinuations about apolitical bureaucrats at an unpopular agency.
    Using Unconstitutional methods are worse than using statutorily illegal methods since the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the land and is higher than mere statutory law. More than an appology is needed; someone will need to pay a price for this outrage.

    It doesn't matter how many times a government offical vioaltes his oath of office and the rights of the Citizenry the correct response would be removal of office and other additional penalties perhaps loss of pension and other privileges if not actual imprisonment.

    Is it your opinion that the members of the Tea Party should just shut up and take it? Is it your opinion that they are not entitled to the justice that were denied them?

    From what I seen so far the IRS is apolitical insofar as they take up the political water of whosoever is the President in the Whitehouse and for one I think that needs to be stopped.
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  3. #163
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Using Unconstitutional methods are worse than using statutorily illegal methods since the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the land and is higher than mere statutory law. More than an appology is needed; someone will need to pay a price for this outrage.
    That's laughably ridiculous. The government does unconstitutional things all the time, and they usually don't fold this easily. Your outrage is utterly misplace and based on ignorance.

  4. #164
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    First the link is to a website that engages in advocacy of Democratic Party so is not independent Media. Secondly the article refers to an article done by the organization "Institute for Research and Education in Human Rights" which itself is a left leaning organization however in the article itself it states that some Tea Party orgs violated terms for tax exempt status on 501(c) 4 but did not call them tax cheats. The difference is that the expenses for political activity must be declared and taxes paid for on those. Major Media may yet go down that road but we are talking about orgs that have not declared themselves 501(c)4 and were not approved by the IRS when requested and were given the run around and were asked questions that the IRS did not need to approve the status. The 501 (c) 4 can keep their donor list secret as well as their member list. The IRS did ask for both of those from these groups.

    Personally I think that there is need for some reform on this. Simply stating which politicals are for the groups stand should not be prohibited. They should be able to mention Politician A is for their position or in an election candidate A is against it. That doesn't mean that material support should come for the orgs just info on the stands of the politicos and contact info if a member wants to give support. Again if a org has a stand to improve the general welfare of the populace then this is necessary info and unfortunately we live in a situation that politics is a overwhelming factor and would have to be addressed.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  5. #165
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    That's laughably ridiculous. The government does unconstitutional things all the time, and they usually don't fold this easily. Your outrage is utterly misplace and based on ignorance.
    It doesn't matter that the government does unconstitutional things all the time. Regardless of any personal ignorance the best way forward is to start combating said unconstitutional acts somewhere at some point an continuing to press on to others. The Equal Protection clause was volated when they singled out Tea Party and Patriot orgs and I am fairly certain that there are many more orgs that have Progressive and other such terms that crossed the line in advocacy as strictly defined under 501(c) 4 and have not been called to pay the taxes for their political speech. Just finding 3 of them to have done so is not equal protection. Furthermore, I would like to know which one were found to be in violation I wonder if they were straying off the Democratic Plantation.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  6. #166
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    Doesn't actually address the issue. If organically more tea party groups were sent in for a closer look then that's one thing. That's not what happened here. Tea Party groups were SPECIFICALLY TARGETTED. That's not organic, nor is it just a symptom of there being more of them applying...that's going out of the way to SPECIFICALLY target a subset of americans due to their personal political views.

    Glad to know you're in favor of unequal enforcement of the law pbrauer and targetting of political views. How progressive of you.

  7. #167
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Clinton was impeached not for having sex with Lewinsky but for Perjury in his testimony in a civil suit that he sexually assaulted a a woman (Not Lewinsky). Perjury qualifies under the High Crimes and Misdemeanors clause for impeachment.

    The actions of the IRS is abuse of power and would also apply as an impeachable offense. The fact that Obama has engaged in worse acts does not diminish the actions thru the IRS but is further support for impeaching him.
    Negative, it sends the wrong message. It says that alleged political discrimination is somehow worse than war crimes (Libya war, terror drone war, etc.).

  8. #168
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Quik View Post
    Negative, it sends the wrong message. It says that alleged political discrimination is somehow worse than war crimes (Libya war, terror drone war, etc.).
    Silencing ones political opponents using the police powers of the State IS worse than the war crimes that Obama has committed so far. He has the bully pulpit he can use that. It is a major violation on the civil liberties when he can bring the powers of the IRS, FBI, BATF, and possibly others for impeding the right of Americans to self assemble for an address of grievances per the 1st Amendment. The war crimes that have occurred that we know could probably be covered under the War Powers Act unfortunately and perhaps that needs to be tightened or abolished thus requiring a declared act of war by the Senate. With respect to "terror drones" where American Citizens were targeted to be killed is sort of a dark grey area I frown on it but am not adamantly opposed to it. I think the Democrat controlled Senate could put a ban on further uses of this by declaration.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  9. #169
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Josie View Post
    If Obama knew what the IRS was doing to conservative groups and allowed it to occur, would you support going forward with impeachment?

    That would have to translate that Obama knew that they were selecting "conservative" groups and not looking for fraudulent Non_Profits that were actually politically oriented groups. It is all about hiding donor names in paperwork and there are no good guys involved. The mountain builders are working like beavers to inflate this molehill.

  10. #170
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow Serious View Post
    Silencing ones political opponents using the police powers of the State IS worse than the war crimes that Obama has committed so far.
    Not even close.

    He has the bully pulpit he can use that. It is a major violation on the civil liberties when he can bring the powers of the IRS, FBI, BATF, and possibly others for impeding the right of Americans to self assemble for an address of grievances per the 1st Amendment. The war crimes that have occurred that we know could probably be covered under the War Powers Act unfortunately and perhaps that needs to be tightened or abolished thus requiring a declared act of war by the Senate. With respect to "terror drones" where American Citizens were targeted to be killed is sort of a dark grey area I frown on it but am not adamantly opposed to it. I think the Democrat controlled Senate could put a ban on further uses of this by declaration.
    Murdering people is objectively worse than targeting them for tax purposes.

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