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Thread: If Obama knew....

  1. #101
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You are imputing a motive without any evidence. The IRS was going after the tea party because of the high likelihood they were tax cheats. Yes, that is unconstitutional profiling most likely. But that is a far cry from "sickig the IRS onthem to bring them down.". It is simply sicking the IRS on them tools sure they paid their taxes! If they hadn't tried to apply for tax skeptic a they didn't actually qualify for then they would have had no problem.
    You are assuming that I've already come to the conclusion the President actually did this (I haven't). Hit rewind and try again. I didn't argue that the President sicced the IRS on them, I said that if he did it would be a giant misuse of his authority. You are forgetting that the IRS already admitted to and even apologized for focusing on conservative groups in particular. You're trying to change my point by arguing that I'm already condemning this president for deliberately misusing the IRS (I'm not) and by implying that I think it's acceptable for those conservative groups not to pay their taxes (I don't). It won't work.

    I just saw your edit: "I'm the first one to argue that the method the IRS used was unconstitutional but I would never dream of impugning their motives without hard evidence like you are doing."

    I never did that. This is an extremely poor display of reading comprehension.

  2. #102
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    You are imputing a motive without any evidence. The IRS was going after the tea party because of the high likelihood they were tax cheats. Yes, that is unconstitutional profiling most likely. But that is a far cry from "sickig the IRS onthem to bring them down.". It is simply sicking the IRS on them tools sure they paid their taxes! If they hadn't tried to apply for tax exemptions they didn't actually qualify for then they would have had no problem.

    I'm the first one to argue that the method the IRS used was unconstitutional but I would never dream of impugning their motives without hard evidence like you are doing.
    They weren't looking at the tea party because of the high likelihood that they were tax cheats. That's not what Lois Lerner apologized for. She apologized for the IRS singling out for greater scrutiny conservative groups by using a selective search criteria such as 'tea party' or 'patriot'.

    That's the issue here.
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  3. #103
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    L
    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    They weren't looking at the tea party because of the high likelihood that they were tax cheats. That's not what Lois Lerner apologized for. She apologized for the IRS singling out for greater scrutiny conservative groups by using a selective search criteria such as 'tea party' or 'patriot'.

    That's the issue here.
    No. They singled out groups with tea party and patriot inthe name because they are more likely to be pushing the definition of 501c4. It was apolitical.

  4. #104
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    You are assuming that I've already come to the conclusion the President actually did this (I haven't). Hit rewind and try again. I didn't argue that the President sicced the IRS on them, I said that if he did it would be a giant misuse of his authority. You are forgetting that the IRS already admitted to and even apologized for focusing on conservative groups in particular. You're trying to change my point by arguing that I'm already condemning this president for deliberately misusing the IRS (I'm not) and by implying that I think it's acceptable for those conservative groups not to pay their taxes (I don't). It won't work.

    I just saw your edit: "I'm the first one to argue that the method the IRS used was unconstitutional but I would never dream of impugning their motives without hard evidence like you are doing."

    I never did that. This is an extremely poor display of reading comprehension.
    If you are not impugning their motives then you should know there is no scandal here. The IRS is supposed to investigate compliance with tax law, which is precisely what they did. Nothing criminal or untoward about it. They should have had the stones to stick by their policy and fought it out it court. It might not necessarily be unconstitutional.

    In any event, you criticize my "reading comprhension" but you are actually contradicting yourself . You accused to IRS of trying to "bring down" tea party groups.

  5. #105
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    L
    No. They singled out groups with tea party and patriot inthe name because they are more likely to be pushing the definition of 501c4. It was apolitical.
    No. Lois Lerner admitted that the cases were picked out just for the names not because the IRS thought that they were more likely to be pushing the definition, that's why this whole thing is an issue.

    However, approximately 75 of the 300 groups that were filed for further review were simply filed because they had the names "tea party" and "patriot," Lerner said.

    "They did pick the cases by names and that's absolutely inappropriate and not the way we should do things," she said, though stressing it was done as a "shortcut," not out of "political bias."

    Following tea party complaints, IRS admits ‘mistakes’ – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs
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  6. #106
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    No. Lois Lerner admitted that the cases were picked out just for the names not because the IRS thought that they were more likely to be pushing the definition, that's why this whole thing is an issue.
    Did you even read you own quote?? It was not out of political bias! It was to make it easier to separate the questionable cases from the real charities.

  7. #107
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    If you are not impugning their motives then you should know there is no scandal here. The IRS is supposed to investigate compliance with tax law, which is precisely what they did. Nothing criminal or untoward about it. They should have had the stones to stick by their policy and fought it out it court. It might not necessarily be unconstitutional.
    Your continuous string of strawmen bore me and do nothing to address my question, which is what power, if any, does the executive office have over who the IRS investigates? If you don't know just say so.

  8. #108
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Did you even read you own quote?? It was not out of political bias! It was to make it easier to separate the questionable cases from the real charities.
    I never assumed any motive...

    I'm not arguing either way for any motive I'm just simply pointing out that many of those groups were targeted because of their name because of the search criteria used and not as you claimed in your previous post because they were more likely to be a tax cheat.

    I call things as they are and in this case it's pretty clear especially when we have a top IRS official apologizing for singling out groups by using the search criteria that they did.
    I believe half of the things I say and say half of the things I believe.

  9. #109
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Your continuous string of strawmen bore me and do nothing to address my question, which is what power, if any, does the executive office have over who the IRS investigates? If you don't know just say so.
    It's not a straw man, Cardinal, it is a direct quote from you. You accused the IRS of trying to "bring down" conservative groups, without any evidence of this motive. They are your own words.

    Timaty the chief executive bears responsiblility for failings of the IRS. But it is irrelevan because nothing wrong happened here.

  10. #110
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    Re: If Obama knew....

    Quote Originally Posted by Monserrat View Post
    I never assumed any motive...

    I'm not arguing either way for any motive I'm just simply pointing out that many of those groups were targeted because of their name because of the search criteria used and not as you claimed in your previous post because they were more likely to be a tax cheat.

    I call things as they are and in this case it's pretty clear especially when we have a top IRS official apologizing for singling out groups by using the search criteria that they did.
    So their methods in their search criteria was stupidity on the part of the irs.

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