View Poll Results: Is the Libertarian Party a close relative of the GOP in ideology?

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  • I'm a Libertarian and the Libertarian Partyand like the GOP is part of conservatism.

    2 8.70%
  • I'm a Libertarian and there is no commonality between the Liberarian and Republican parties

    10 43.48%
  • I'm a Republican and see the Libertairan Party as somewhat similar to the GOP

    5 21.74%
  • I'm a Republican and the Liberarian Party and the GOP are like night and day

    2 8.70%
  • I'm a Democrat and see the Libertarian Party as somewhat similar to the GOP

    3 13.04%
  • I'm a Democrat and see the Libertarian Party as very different than the GOP

    1 4.35%
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Thread: Question for Libertarians

  1. #41
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    Re: Question for Libertarians

    Personally, I'm insulted when someone says libertarians are socially liberal. They don't mean socially liberal in the classical sense, but in the modern sense and I have just about nothing in common with modern liberals. They approach every topic from a different angle than I do and with different goals to reach. They view rights as a gift from the state and liberty as simply permitted. I'm the exact opposite on both positions and so when I find myself agreeing with them on a general idea, lets say gay marriage, the ends are different and the reasons they have for their position are usually things I reject. The basis for their position is regularly equality, but I view the idea we shape policy around equality outside of liberty as idiotic and dangerous. My view is simply liberty and the right of all people to marry who they please. I have no use for equality arguments built on marriage benefits or some hair brain idea of approval by the state. Liberty offers equality and so further attempts past that point are baseless, unwarranted and almost always violating the liberty of someone else to obtain. I have no use for modern liberals. Their ideas of social freedom almost always involves coercion or direct involvement by the state in our lives. My idea is fairly simply really. Allow the liberty and call it done. We don't need modern liberal ideas of equality to muddy the waters.

    Liberals as we know them today are not for freedom and when they talk of it you can always be assured that government is going to play a part in whatever plan they have towards it. That is not freedom, it's government control of freedom.
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-20-13 at 04:34 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Question for Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    There is grey area between the two. They are by no means "rights", but they are privileges that can be entrusted to people through minimal taxation and charitable sources.
    If there is any legitimate reason for Government, it's to enforce the rule of law. Do you agree? The court is a government service. If you are not entitled to that service - if you and every other citizen do not have a right to a trial - I see no legitimate purpose for the government.

  3. #43
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    Re: Question for Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    And the problem is the same thing I've said for years - that the overwhelming majority of Americans have no idea what the differences are between "rights" and "privileges".
    The right to a fair trial is not a privilege.

  4. #44
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    Re: Question for Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Personally, I'm insulted when someone says libertarians are socially liberal. They don't mean socially liberal in the classical sense, but in the modern sense and I have just about nothing in common with modern liberals. They approach every topic from a different angle than I do and with different goals to reach. They view rights as a gift from the state and liberty as simply permitted. I'm the exact opposite on both positions and so when I find myself agreeing with them on a general idea, lets say gay marriage, the ends are different and the reasons they have for the position are usually things I reject. The basis for their position is regularly equality, but I view the idea we shape policy around equality outside of liberty as idiotic and dangerous. My view is simply liberty and the right of all people to marry who they please. I have no use for equality arguments built on marriage benefits or some hair brain idea of approval by the state. Liberty offers equality and so further attempts past that point are baseless, unwarranted and almost always violating the liberty of someone else to obtain. I have no use for modern liberals. Their ideas of social freedom almost always involves coercion or direct involvement by the state in our lives. My idea is fairly simply really. Allow the liberty and call it done. We don't need modern liberal ideas of equality to muddy the waters.

    Liberals as we know them today are not for freedom and when they talk of it you can always be assured that government is going to play a part in whatever plan they have towards it. That is not freedom, it's government control of freedom.
    Many libertarians may disagree with how we distribute privileges, and I personally don't view any marriage as a "right", but I think most of us will say that it is oppressive to deny marriage to people based on genetic factors (race, sex, orientation, etc.). It is not a violation of heterosexual liberty to allow for same-sex marriage because there is no damage caused to the institution of heterosexual marriage. Do you think today's libertarians would support blacks or women being unable to vote, as was the law in the past?

    All marriage is government intrusion, so you can't play that card when it comes to same-sex marriage without it also being applicable to heterosexual marriage.

  5. #45
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    Re: Question for Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The basis for their position is regularly equality, but I view the idea we shape policy around equality outside of liberty as idiotic and dangerous. My view is simply liberty and the right of all people to marry who they please. I have no use for equality arguments built on marriage benefits or some hair brain idea of approval by the state.
    Yes, exactly. Social liberals promote such things as affirmative action - believing government intervention necessary in order to provide an equal opportunity for success (or necessary so that "all folks can have a fair shake" as Obama puts it). Libertarians are NOT social liberals.

  6. #46
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    Re: Question for Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    If there is any legitimate reason for Government, it's to enforce the rule of law. Do you agree? The court is a government service. If you are not entitled to that service - if you and every other citizen do not have a right to a trial - I see no legitimate purpose for the government.
    No, I don't view law enforcement as a reason for government. I think the basis of government is to promote general (and limited) welfare, defend the peace, and to uphold liberties. Law enforcement should be held at local/state levels. Federal enforcement of existing laws should be very small, very thin, and very judicious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    The right to a fair trial is not a privilege.
    I've never railed against fair trial. What I do not call a right, as opposed to a privilege, is any allotment of taxpayer funds.

  7. #47
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    Re: Question for Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    Many libertarians may disagree with how we distribute privileges, and I personally don't view any marriage as a "right", but I think most of us will say that it is oppressive to deny marriage to people based on genetic factors (race, sex, orientation, etc.). It is not a violation of heterosexual liberty to allow for same-sex marriage because there is no damage caused to the institution of heterosexual marriage. Do you think today's libertarians would support blacks or women being unable to vote, as was the law in the past?
    The right to marriage is just a natural extension of the right to liberty. We don't have a right to have government oversee our marriage or provide us with benefits, but we all have the right to marry who we please regardless of race, sex, orientation, etc. When I referred to liberals violating the liberty of people towards equality I was more looking towards other actions liberals have taken.

    All marriage is government intrusion, so you can't play that card when it comes to same-sex marriage without it also being applicable to heterosexual marriage.
    Yes, it is. That is why my position doesn't include the government and yet just another reason I don't agree with liberal social policy. I'm not socially liberal and it's insulting that people keep saying that I am.

  8. #48
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    Re: Question for Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The right to marriage is just a natural extension of the right to liberty. We don't have a right to have government oversee our marriage or provide us with benefits, but we all have the right to marry who we please regardless of race, sex, orientation, etc. When I referred to liberals violating the liberty of people towards equality I was more looking towards other actions liberals have taken.



    Yes, it is. That is why my position doesn't include the government and yet just another reason I don't agree with liberal social policy. I'm not socially liberal and it's insulting that people keep saying that I am.
    There are 2 reasons men get married: tax benefits, and she won't shut the hell up about it. Neither involve rights or liberties.

  9. #49
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    Re: Question for Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Smeagol View Post
    On a different thread someone suggested Libertarians should not be lumped together with conservatives. I agree Libertarians are not exactly Republicans but I do tend to think of Libertarians as the half-brothers of Republicans. Congressman Ron Paul and twice Presidential candidate is a Libertarian and according the Wikipedia is a "Lifetime Member" but joined "the next best thing" due to electability issues not being affiliated with a major party. The Libertarian candidate for POTUS, Congressman Bob Barr was a lifelong Republican but ran for President as a Libertarian I assume because they represented his conservative ideology even more than the GOP.

    Am I'm mistaken or is the Libertarian Party in the same conservative family as the Republican Party?

    Sorry for inadvertently omitting Independents from the poll.
    You are mistaken in my view.

    Both democrats and republicans have too many authoritarian ideas. Libertarians tend to be left or right on issues, depending on what they are, and seldom in unison. I am generally more right than left, but I think the best way to look at the libertarian idea, is to think of opposing all but basic authority needed for society.

  10. #50
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    Re: Question for Libertarians

    Quote Originally Posted by Gipper View Post
    There are 2 reasons men get married: tax benefits, and she won't shut the hell up about it. Neither involve rights or liberties.
    I'm guessing they never think of the downside of shared property either.

    People generally don't do anything for the reason of "I have the right to do this". Why would it be different for marriage?

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