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Would AP/IRS seem more serious if the right had not spent tge last 5 years...

Do you think conservatives' history creates a distrust of the messenger?

  • Yes. GOP behavior in the past 5 years has created a who cares attitude

    Votes: 7 58.3%
  • No. People are not impacted in their thinking on these issues by the past.

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • Total voters
    12

Smeagol

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...demonizing and trying to cause the President to fail often using the most ridiculous arguments? To me, there is a big credibility problem with the right in America. If you spend a half a decade having a conniption over:

-He's not eligible to be potus because he's not an America citizen despite being a grandson of a WWII vet who served under Gen. George Patton and even if the constitution did not afford citizenship to the children of American citizens born anywhere, the REPUBLICAN Governor of Hawaii said he was born in Hawaii.

-He has a deep seeded hatred for white people; that would have to include his own mother.

-He hates the constitution and subverts it by appointing non-elected, unaccountable White House czars bypassing the senate confirmation process laid out by the founding fathers. Not mentioning every president since FDR except one has had White House czars and the record holder of the POTUS with the most was republican President George W Bush but they said NOTHING about that at the time or after.

-He hates Israel. Never mentioning his chief adviser, the White House Chief of Staff was not only Jewish but spent summers in Israel as a kid and volunteered for the Israeli civil air patrol when Saddam Hussein was lobbing scud missiles toward Tel Aviv in the 1990s.

-A USDA official shares how God changed her heart from someone who resented Whites due to racism she and her family experienced as a child but grew to love all people equally. The Pundits carefully edit the video to deliberately make it sound like the Obama Administration appoints officials who hate White people and go into 5th gear plastering it all over the conservative media. Not having access to the entire video, the Obama Administration terminates her. Then instead of trying to salvage some semblance of credibility, saying they were deceived too and apologize to the lady who lost her job and the White House, the conservative media figures out a way to blame Obama for jumping to conclusions and the pundit who deceptively edited the video gets a wink and a nod and continues to enjoy VIP status as an important and respected voice for conservatism until his untimely passing.

-Hip Hip Hooray! The USA (Chicago, Obama's home town) lost its bid to host the Olympics. Up with Brazil, down with America...because its Chicago.

-Yahooooo! The urban crime rate is at an all time high in Chicago, the President's hometown. Gotta love it when people get killed if it scores political points!

-Then when you mention this type of stuff is shameful to your republican friends, they compare it to the behavior mostly no-name extremists in the Democrat party when its mostly our party's most respected leaders and standard bearers.

I could go on...It's a wonder I haven't switched party's.

Anyway, with me eventually I just write off any criticism of the Obama Presidency. Now we have Benghazi, The IRS scandal and AP wire taps and I honestly am giving the White House the benefit of the doubt; didn't realize the severity of the problem, initial intelligence as to the players involved was faulty, didn't realize what was going on by badly behaving employees in Cincinnati and disciplinary action is underway including the possibility of criminal charges, legitimate anti-terror investigation in efforts to save American lives. I also realize, in order to get to the truth you need to objectively hear all sides but in my mind those on the right have absolutely no credibility left as caring about truth; all they care about is demonizing the President.

My question is do you think the seriousness of the current events mentioned would be viewed as such or even followed and cared about by more people if those (conservatives) claiming these allegations are of "such a grave nature and here's why" if they had a history and reputation of fairness, honesty, integrity and respect in their past dealings with the President?
 
...demonizing and trying to cause the President to fail often using the most ridiculous arguments? To me, there is a big credibility problem with the right in America. If you spend a half a decade having a conniption over:

-He's not eligible to be potus because he's not an America citizen despite being a grandson of a WWII vet who served under Gen. George Patton and even if the constitution did not afford citizenship to the children of American citizens born anywhere, the REPUBLICAN Governor of Hawaii said he was born in Hawaii.

-He has a deep seeded hatred for white people; that would have to include his own mother.

-He hates the constitution and subverts it by appointing non-elected, unaccountable White House czars bypassing the senate confirmation process laid out by the founding fathers. Not mentioning every president since FDR except one has had White House czars and the record holder of the POTUS with the most was republican President George W Bush but they said NOTHING about that at the time or after.

-He hates Israel. Never mentioning his chief adviser, the White House Chief of Staff was not only Jewish but spent summers in Israel as a kid and volunteered for the Israeli civil air patrol when Saddam Hussein was lobbing scud missiles toward Tel Aviv in the 1990s.

-A USDA official shares how God changed her heart from someone who resented Whites due to racism she and her family experienced as a child but grew to love all people equally. The Pundits carefully edit the video to deliberately make it sound like the Obama Administration appoints officials who hate White people and go into 5th gear plastering it all over the conservative media. Not having access to the entire video, the Obama Administration terminates her. Then instead of trying to salvage some semblance of credibility, saying they were deceived too and apologize to the lady who lost her job and the White House, the conservative media figures out a way to blame Obama for jumping to conclusions and the pundit who deceptively edited the video gets a wink and a nod and continues to enjoy VIP status as an important and respected voice for conservatism until his untimely passing.

-Hip Hip Hooray! The USA (Chicago, Obama's home town) lost its bid to host the Olympics. Up with Brazil, down with America...because its Chicago.

-Yahooooo! The urban crime rate is at an all time high in Chicago, the President's hometown. Gotta love it when people get killed if it scores political points!

-Then when you mention this type of stuff is shameful to your republican friends, they compare it to the behavior mostly no-name extremists in the Democrat party when its mostly our party's most respected leaders and standard bearers.

I could go on...It's a wonder I haven't switched party's.

Anyway, with me eventually I just write off any criticism of the Obama Presidency. Now we have Benghazi, The IRS scandal and AP wire taps and I honestly am giving the White House the benefit of the doubt; didn't realize the severity of the problem, initial intelligence as to the players involved was faulty, didn't realize what was going on by badly behaving employees in Cincinnati and disciplinary action is underway including the possibility of criminal charges, legitimate anti-terror investigation in efforts to save American lives. I also realize, in order to get to the truth you need to objectively hear all sides but in my mind those on the right have absolutely no credibility left as caring about truth; all they care about is demonizing the President.

My question is do you think the seriousness of the current events mentioned would be viewed as such or even followed and cared about by more people if those (conservatives) claiming these allegations are of "such a grave nature and here's why" if they had a history and reputation of fairness, honesty, integrity and respect in their past dealings with the President?

No.He doesn't give respect nor does he deserve respect!

I respect the office of President but not Obama.

He doesn't do the job hes paid for.Always campaigning,

seemingly never working.

The fish rots from the head down

Obama=Nixon!
 
Blather. The President declared on Benghazi the buck stopped with him. Apparently that does not apply if something actually went wrong. Acting Director of the IRS Miller testified that he should be held accountable because of his job even for things in which he did not directly participate which was why he felt his resignation was appropriate. Obama has not apologized but yesterday defended the spying on reporters under the guise of protecting US government operatives which means that he is effectively admitting he is trying to stiffle freedom of the press. If Obama had any sort of leadership skill whatsoever, he would acknowledge the wrongdoings even if he was not involved in them. Hell, even Reagan went on TV and did that for Iran-Contra once he realized that this left-wing witch hunt as he had seen it was, in fact, true (although that may have been part of the deal to avoid pursuit of an impeachment vote)
 
What "messenger"?

The DoJ has admitted that it was illegally wiretapping the AP - and the well-justified fury among the media professionals is not limited to the "Right" by any means. There's nothing "right-wing" about the Associated Press, after all.

The IRS has admitted specifically targeting conservative and libertarian groups, bringing back the ghosts of worst abuse of power from the days of FDR and Nixon. And one doesn't have to be libertarian or conservative himself, to feel betrayed and threatened.

Some hyper-partisan idiots said some stupid things about Obama? Just like they did about Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan - all the way to the times of the Jefferson's and Hamilton's factions trading ridiculous accusations? So what? How does it make the uncovered facts of abuse and corruption less factual?
 
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That isn't the important question. The important question is, "Is this LESS of a Big DEAL because a Democrat did it?"

The left would have eaten this alive had a Republican been in charge. They did ALL of that during the Bush administration...all kinds of protests. So why not this crap going on?
 
...demonizing and trying to cause the President to fail often using the most ridiculous arguments? To me, there is a big credibility problem with the right in America. If you spend a half a decade having a conniption over:
It's the same tactic they used with Clinton when they appointed Starr to climb up his ass with a microscope. (And since all Starr found was a BJ, which got blown! out of all proportion, I'd say Clinton was damn honest for a politician.) Yes, it's unacceptable that something like this happened and if Obama did nothing about it there might be an issue, but that's not the case. The Republicans are gearing up for 2016 and that's why they're blowing their horns about this from every mountaintop and sewer they can find.
 
Blather. The President declared on Benghazi the buck stopped with him. Apparently that does not apply if something actually went wrong. Acting Director of the IRS Miller testified that he should be held accountable because of his job even for things in which he did not directly participate which was why he felt his resignation was appropriate. Obama has not apologized but yesterday defended the spying on reporters under the guise of protecting US government operatives which means that he is effectively admitting he is trying to stiffle freedom of the press. If Obama had any sort of leadership skill whatsoever, he would acknowledge the wrongdoings even if he was not involved in them. Hell, even Reagan went on TV and did that for Iran-Contra once he realized that this left-wing witch hunt as he had seen it was, in fact, true (although that may have been part of the deal to avoid pursuit of an impeachment vote)

Want to bet that if the polls show things still "going north" on the party for next year and 2016, that Holder is gone in less than a week with the same diatribe about losing control of subordinates with statements also clearly letting Obama off and neither Obama nor his appointees actually taking responsibility for anything?

The Dems are going to send out sacrificial lambs of the lowest possible level until they think they have cleared up the issue to the voters and they are on track to win in the future. How far it goes and who goes under the bus is entirely determined by how far the party thinks they have to go. Personally, I think they will sacrifice both 2014 and 2016 elections and throw their darling princess under the bus as well before they do anything that might indicate the party is not standing behind and might be betraying the first ever black president. Kennedy's actions got them the majority of the black vote for a long time now, being seen as "betraying" Obama could severely damage that long standing "norm".

What the OP seems to leave out is that no matter what the Reps may have done or didn't do in the past, none of this would be an issue/problem if it hadn't actually occured.
 
Well next year is going to be all about Obamacare and the midterms, so I suspect if it all isn't investigated this year, it won't ever be.
 
...demonizing and trying to cause the President to fail often using the most ridiculous arguments? To me, there is a big credibility problem with the right in America. If you spend a half a decade having a conniption over:

-He's not eligible to be potus because he's not an America citizen despite being a grandson of a WWII vet who served under Gen. George Patton and even if the constitution did not afford citizenship to the children of American citizens born anywhere, the REPUBLICAN Governor of Hawaii said he was born in Hawaii.

-He has a deep seeded hatred for white people; that would have to include his own mother.

-He hates the constitution and subverts it by appointing non-elected, unaccountable White House czars bypassing the senate confirmation process laid out by the founding fathers. Not mentioning every president since FDR except one has had White House czars and the record holder of the POTUS with the most was republican President George W Bush but they said NOTHING about that at the time or after.

-He hates Israel. Never mentioning his chief adviser, the White House Chief of Staff was not only Jewish but spent summers in Israel as a kid and volunteered for the Israeli civil air patrol when Saddam Hussein was lobbing scud missiles toward Tel Aviv in the 1990s.

-A USDA official shares how God changed her heart from someone who resented Whites due to racism she and her family experienced as a child but grew to love all people equally. The Pundits carefully edit the video to deliberately make it sound like the Obama Administration appoints officials who hate White people and go into 5th gear plastering it all over the conservative media. Not having access to the entire video, the Obama Administration terminates her. Then instead of trying to salvage some semblance of credibility, saying they were deceived too and apologize to the lady who lost her job and the White House, the conservative media figures out a way to blame Obama for jumping to conclusions and the pundit who deceptively edited the video gets a wink and a nod and continues to enjoy VIP status as an important and respected voice for conservatism until his untimely passing.

-Hip Hip Hooray! The USA (Chicago, Obama's home town) lost its bid to host the Olympics. Up with Brazil, down with America...because its Chicago.

-Yahooooo! The urban crime rate is at an all time high in Chicago, the President's hometown. Gotta love it when people get killed if it scores political points!

-Then when you mention this type of stuff is shameful to your republican friends, they compare it to the behavior mostly no-name extremists in the Democrat party when its mostly our party's most respected leaders and standard bearers.

I could go on...It's a wonder I haven't switched party's.

Anyway, with me eventually I just write off any criticism of the Obama Presidency. Now we have Benghazi, The IRS scandal and AP wire taps and I honestly am giving the White House the benefit of the doubt; didn't realize the severity of the problem, initial intelligence as to the players involved was faulty, didn't realize what was going on by badly behaving employees in Cincinnati and disciplinary action is underway including the possibility of criminal charges, legitimate anti-terror investigation in efforts to save American lives. I also realize, in order to get to the truth you need to objectively hear all sides but in my mind those on the right have absolutely no credibility left as caring about truth; all they care about is demonizing the President.

My question is do you think the seriousness of the current events mentioned would be viewed as such or even followed and cared about by more people if those (conservatives) claiming these allegations are of "such a grave nature and here's why" if they had a history and reputation of fairness, honesty, integrity and respect in their past dealings with the President?

Thanks. Now I won't feel so bad when I blame rape victims.
 
...demonizing and trying to cause the President to fail often using the most ridiculous arguments? To me, there is a big credibility problem with the right in America. If you spend a half a decade having a conniption over:

-He's not eligible to be potus because he's not an America citizen despite being a grandson of a WWII vet who served under Gen. George Patton and even if the constitution did not afford citizenship to the children of American citizens born anywhere, the REPUBLICAN Governor of Hawaii said he was born in Hawaii.

-He has a deep seeded hatred for white people; that would have to include his own mother.

-He hates the constitution and subverts it by appointing non-elected, unaccountable White House czars bypassing the senate confirmation process laid out by the founding fathers. Not mentioning every president since FDR except one has had White House czars and the record holder of the POTUS with the most was republican President George W Bush but they said NOTHING about that at the time or after.

-He hates Israel. Never mentioning his chief adviser, the White House Chief of Staff was not only Jewish but spent summers in Israel as a kid and volunteered for the Israeli civil air patrol when Saddam Hussein was lobbing scud missiles toward Tel Aviv in the 1990s.

-A USDA official shares how God changed her heart from someone who resented Whites due to racism she and her family experienced as a child but grew to love all people equally. The Pundits carefully edit the video to deliberately make it sound like the Obama Administration appoints officials who hate White people and go into 5th gear plastering it all over the conservative media. Not having access to the entire video, the Obama Administration terminates her. Then instead of trying to salvage some semblance of credibility, saying they were deceived too and apologize to the lady who lost her job and the White House, the conservative media figures out a way to blame Obama for jumping to conclusions and the pundit who deceptively edited the video gets a wink and a nod and continues to enjoy VIP status as an important and respected voice for conservatism until his untimely passing.

-Hip Hip Hooray! The USA (Chicago, Obama's home town) lost its bid to host the Olympics. Up with Brazil, down with America...because its Chicago.

-Yahooooo! The urban crime rate is at an all time high in Chicago, the President's hometown. Gotta love it when people get killed if it scores political points!

-Then when you mention this type of stuff is shameful to your republican friends, they compare it to the behavior mostly no-name extremists in the Democrat party when its mostly our party's most respected leaders and standard bearers.

I could go on...It's a wonder I haven't switched party's.

Anyway, with me eventually I just write off any criticism of the Obama Presidency. Now we have Benghazi, The IRS scandal and AP wire taps and I honestly am giving the White House the benefit of the doubt; didn't realize the severity of the problem, initial intelligence as to the players involved was faulty, didn't realize what was going on by badly behaving employees in Cincinnati and disciplinary action is underway including the possibility of criminal charges, legitimate anti-terror investigation in efforts to save American lives. I also realize, in order to get to the truth you need to objectively hear all sides but in my mind those on the right have absolutely no credibility left as caring about truth; all they care about is demonizing the President.

My question is do you think the seriousness of the current events mentioned would be viewed as such or even followed and cared about by more people if those (conservatives) claiming these allegations are of "such a grave nature and here's why" if they had a history and reputation of fairness, honesty, integrity and respect in their past dealings with the President?

Yes. Especially now that the Benghazi investigation has been all but proven to be a manufactured scandal.

Look, let's deal with the bad guys in the IRS the responsible way. Let's NOT bring out the lynch mob for the hundredth time and want to kick everyone out for a few bad apples.
 
Yeah, right wing ****tards have completely destroyed the credibility of anyone attacking the president. Obama could murder someone on live television and half the country would write it off as yet more ignorant ****wits trying to spin a sneeze into a serial killing rampage.
 
Your assertion (tenuous at best) would only make sense if it was the right wing bringing the accusations about the IRS and the ap. But it is not. You might have a point with Benghazi, but its wishful thinking on these issues.
 
This is like the boy who cried wolf story.

Neither the wolves nor the lying little shepherds are risking much. We the sheep, on the other hand...
 
What point are you trying to make?
If you had read the thread before you posted, you would have known that your comment was debunked before you even posted it.
 
The only thing that would make AP/IRS "seem serious" are actual criminal conduct on the part of the administration in regards to any of these "scandals"...
 
If you had read the thread before you posted, you would have known that your comment was debunked before you even posted it.

Debunked? How can throwing in an expression be debunked?
 
Debunked? How can throwing in an expression be debunked?
Anyone who knows what that expression means, can clearly see that it doesn't apply here, and that it falsely describes what happened.
 
Anyone who knows what that expression means, can clearly see that it doesn't apply here, and that it falsely describes what happened.

Depends on how you look at it. A lot of right wing pundits have been calling scandal since Obama was elected. Now there's real scandals.
 
The right has overplayed their hand on numerous occasions in terms of supposed scandals. That is, however, no excuse to dismiss legitimate abuses or incompetency on the part of the Administration. Which one of the current fiascoes would qualify as such is quite obviously up for debate.
 
The right has overplayed their hand on numerous occasions in terms of supposed scandals. That is, however, no excuse to dismiss legitimate abuses or incompetency on the part of the Administration. Which one of the current fiascoes would qualify as such is quite obviously up for debate.
It's not just been "numerous occasions", it's been almost a non-stop blathering, which has now become background noise to a large extent. Previous claims and accusations have now come back to bite the Republicans in the butt. They've lost credibility on this issue for all but their most loyal fans, many of whom still believe Obama isn't a US citizen. :roll:

So, no, I don't think it should "dismiss legitimate abuses or incompetency" but it certainly limits the knee jerk reactions to such claims. No reason to even look at it until more evidence is shown. It's most likely just another red herring like so many others before it.
 
...demonizing and trying to cause the President to fail often using the most ridiculous arguments? To me, there is a big credibility problem with the right in America. If you spend a half a decade having a conniption over:

-He's not eligible to be potus because he's not an America citizen despite being a grandson of a WWII vet who served under Gen. George Patton and even if the constitution did not afford citizenship to the children of American citizens born anywhere, the REPUBLICAN Governor of Hawaii said he was born in Hawaii.

-He has a deep seeded hatred for white people; that would have to include his own mother.

-He hates the constitution and subverts it by appointing non-elected, unaccountable White House czars bypassing the senate confirmation process laid out by the founding fathers. Not mentioning every president since FDR except one has had White House czars and the record holder of the POTUS with the most was republican President George W Bush but they said NOTHING about that at the time or after.

-He hates Israel. Never mentioning his chief adviser, the White House Chief of Staff was not only Jewish but spent summers in Israel as a kid and volunteered for the Israeli civil air patrol when Saddam Hussein was lobbing scud missiles toward Tel Aviv in the 1990s.

-A USDA official shares how God changed her heart from someone who resented Whites due to racism she and her family experienced as a child but grew to love all people equally. The Pundits carefully edit the video to deliberately make it sound like the Obama Administration appoints officials who hate White people and go into 5th gear plastering it all over the conservative media. Not having access to the entire video, the Obama Administration terminates her. Then instead of trying to salvage some semblance of credibility, saying they were deceived too and apologize to the lady who lost her job and the White House, the conservative media figures out a way to blame Obama for jumping to conclusions and the pundit who deceptively edited the video gets a wink and a nod and continues to enjoy VIP status as an important and respected voice for conservatism until his untimely passing.

-Hip Hip Hooray! The USA (Chicago, Obama's home town) lost its bid to host the Olympics. Up with Brazil, down with America...because its Chicago.

-Yahooooo! The urban crime rate is at an all time high in Chicago, the President's hometown. Gotta love it when people get killed if it scores political points!

-Then when you mention this type of stuff is shameful to your republican friends, they compare it to the behavior mostly no-name extremists in the Democrat party when its mostly our party's most respected leaders and standard bearers.

I could go on...It's a wonder I haven't switched party's.

Anyway, with me eventually I just write off any criticism of the Obama Presidency. Now we have Benghazi, The IRS scandal and AP wire taps and I honestly am giving the White House the benefit of the doubt; didn't realize the severity of the problem, initial intelligence as to the players involved was faulty, didn't realize what was going on by badly behaving employees in Cincinnati and disciplinary action is underway including the possibility of criminal charges, legitimate anti-terror investigation in efforts to save American lives. I also realize, in order to get to the truth you need to objectively hear all sides but in my mind those on the right have absolutely no credibility left as caring about truth; all they care about is demonizing the President.

My question is do you think the seriousness of the current events mentioned would be viewed as such or even followed and cared about by more people if those (conservatives) claiming these allegations are of "such a grave nature and here's why" if they had a history and reputation of fairness, honesty, integrity and respect in their past dealings with the President?

well, it's an interesting idea, though poorly written out with laughable attempts at examples.


were Democrats held back in their ability to blame the Bush administration for mishandling the Iraq War and the 2008 financial meltdown because the left had spent the previous 4 years accusing him of secretly orchestrating 9/11?
 
well, it's an interesting idea, though poorly written out with laughable attempts at examples.


were Democrats held back in their ability to blame the Bush administration for mishandling the Iraq War and the 2008 financial meltdown because the left had spent the previous 4 years accusing him of secretly orchestrating 9/11?

Thanks for the personal complement.

An important point I was making is with the democrats dishonest vilification of President Bush, who I rigorously defended by the way against those ridiculous claims, with few exceptions those making the claims were either certified nutjobs of the democrat party and/or people I'd never heard of and most likely both. With respect to republican vilification of President Obama, those making the ridiculous claims happen to be some of the most respected leaders in our party. Then they use the unknown democrat nutjob as some sort of even stevens justification of leading, respected and highly influential Republicans acting in a similar way, thus promoting me to publicly point it out and vote in ways that hopefully will bring the GOP to its senses and return to being the party I can have faith in again.
 
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