View Poll Results: Israel or Palestine?

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  • Israel. The UN created it for a reason

    23 31.51%
  • Palestine. It was their land.

    18 24.66%
  • Israel, but the land the UN gave them when first made.

    15 20.55%
  • Other (post below)

    17 23.29%
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Thread: Israel and Palestine

  1. #61
    User Aleem's Avatar
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    I'm going to answer you in detail, I know that you and your likes are trying to distort Islam, But I thank you for raising these issues which want to be clarified .

    I invite every neutral member and guest to read my answers to remove this confusion about Islam .

    But at first, I want to clarify something .
    Any defect or fault in the islamic countries means a defect in Muslims NOT in Islam, You get it ?
    In other words, You can not take muslims as a reference to judge Islam .
    As many of them are muslims only by name, While in fact they do not follow the instructions of Islam nor avoid its restraints, This leads to distorting Islam in the view of people knowing little about Islam .
    So if you want to judge Islam, Listen to what Islam says NOT to what muslims do .

    In regard to extremists, I think that this group is present in every religion ( As Zionists in Judaism ) And they represent a very tiny percent of muslims, So It's not acceptable to treat all muslims as extremists .

    Quote Originally Posted by teacher
    Do you agree with the Qu'ran about converting or killing all non believers?
    Read this text and What Qur'an says about the relation between muslims and non-muslims .


    Quote Originally Posted by teacher
    Should the Jews be kicked out entirely of the middle east?
    (Israel and Palestine)Refer to Mr Trotsky's posts in this thread and you will know my answer .

    Quote Originally Posted by teacher
    Please defend your countries abysmal PRESENT human
    rights record.
    I agree with you,There are no human rights here in Egypt .
    But it is the fault of the ruler, Not the ruled people .
    So i will not defend these despotic rulers whom we hate extremely .

    But insteed, Defend USA crimes allover the world .
    You know well what USA (The democratic highly-civilized country ) committed ( and still ) in the prisons of Iraq, Guantanamo,....This is not far off from you . So, Don't say a word about Human rights .
    USA crimes around the globe .

    And If you found any defect in the islamic world, It's not a defect in Islam BUT a defect in Muslims as i mentioned before .

    Human Rights In Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by teacher
    If you are backed by GOD why do you keep losing?
    Because we ,muslims, don't follow what Th God says so we don't deserve the God's support .
    Also the backwardness in which muslims live is not related to their religion, But it's related to the despotism sitting heavily on arabic countries .
    How can you expect that a country afflicted by despotism can make a progress ?
    When we discard this despodism - which Islam prohibits - and when we live in a real islamic atmosphere - of which democracy is a part ; NB : The word "Democracy" in English corresponds to the word "Al-Shora" in Arabic which was mentioned in Quran 1400 years ago when you were living in the darkness - when we do this we'll be on the top .
    As you can see, Muslims don't practice Al-shora (democracy) which The God ordered them 1400 years ago, Now you can understand me when i say that muslims don't follow the God's orders .

    You can refer to " Islam And Democracy "


    Quote Originally Posted by teacher
    Can you step away from religious dogma and deal with this issue with facts, logic, and morality?
    No i can not, Because my religion - being inspired from The God - contains the absolute facts, the sound logic and the high morality .

    Quote Originally Posted by teacher
    If America came up with alternative energy sources today, stop buying oil, pull completely out of the middle east, taking the Jews with us, would it then be okay to stop blowing up everything terrorists can sneak up to? And how the hell would the oil producing countries survive?
    Yes, If USA did what you said especially taking jews with it in addition to not interfering in our affairs and not harassing nor attacking islamic countries, The islamic terrorists will stop blowing up everything .
    About the second question, It's not your business, Just leave us alone .

    Quote Originally Posted by teacher
    Do you condone the Koran scriptures about the beating of women?

    Should women be allowed to read?
    Work?
    Vote?
    Hold public office?
    Dress how they want?
    Pick their own husbands?
    Teach?
    Read these articles written by reliable islamic figuers which answer your questions concerning women in Islam :

    “Beat” Them Lightly ?
    How Does Modesty Relate to Dress ?
    Slandering a Muslim Woman
    Abuse of Women's Rights
    Distinguishing Culture from Religion Concerning Marriage
    Several Questions about Hijab(Headscarf)
    Islamic Gender Discrimination?
    Equal rights for women

    And This link contains 61 articles about woman in the viewpoint of Islam from which i chose the links above




    Quote Originally Posted by teacher
    Do you condone the killing of Jewish and Christian tourists in your country?
    Do you think the Jews target children specifically or they are collateral damage?
    Are you talking about targetting children ? Alright, Read this :

    Israelis shoot 4-year-old child in Gaza
    Testimony of an Israeli soldier: to kill children fracture their heads
    Israel Killing Children in Palestine
    An israeli platoon commander emptied an ammunition clip into a 13-year-old Palestinian girl

    And the most important : Transcript of soldiers in Rafah schoolgirl shooting

    If you need more, Just tell me .

    " Israeli tanks shooting palastinian children "


    Quote Originally Posted by teacher
    Did you see your foreign minister or something about a month ago completely dodge Tim Russerts question about your countries human rights record. How embarrassing.
    Vide Supra .

    There is a difference between the occupier and the occupied .
    There is a difference between the aggression and the defence .
    There is a difference between the homeland and the settlement .
    There is a difference between the automatic rifle and the stone .
    There is a difference between the terrorist and the defender .

    There is no difference between The Nazism and The Zionism .

    I want to tell you something Mr Teacher : This thread talks about the Israeli-palasinian conflict NOT about Islam .
    But i think that you had to go off-topic and distract the members from the main topic after the painful facts - you could not refute - mentioned by Mr Trotsky and me .
    So you tried to divert the topic toward Islam where you guessed you've an outlet there by inciting topics not well-understood by many in the west .
    "Did ye then think that We had created you in jest, and that ye would not be brought back to Us (for account)?" (Qur'an)

  2. #62
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai
    I voted other because I believe that there should be both an Israel and a Palestine, but not with the U.N. borders. I believe the borders should be as they were in 1967 with the exception that East Jerusalem be attached permanently to Israel.

    Ditto. ludahai is one intelligent person. Very articulate. Could not have said it any better.
    GO SPURS GO

  3. #63
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai
    There was no mention of which ethnic group should govern it however. The United Nations realized in 1948 that a single-state was impractical, so it created two states. The Jews accepted it, the Arabs did not, despite the fact that they have the rest of the land between the twin rivers and the Atlantic Ocean!
    Palestine means not Israel. Jews would have been able to live there if they didn't create two states. Why create two states? It was Palestine's land, you can't deny that. A mandate for Palestine means Palestine was to govern itself, not to create another state after Israel ****ed up.
    "If you're not a liberal when you're 25, you have no heart. If you're not a conservative by the time you're 35, you have no brain."
    -Winston Churchill

  4. #64
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Who cares, land grabs are negotiable. America took its fare share from Mexico and Spain.

    I wonder who's so keen to spend 2 billions dollars a year in tax payers money to arm Israeli with new toys every year. Thank you Christian brothers for wasting the America's wealth.

  5. #65
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasea
    The entire country is smaller in size than the State of New Jersey, and much of it is desert. What is there to split?

    Why haven't the wealthy Arab nations which surround Israel shown some mercy and compassion for the generations of those they call Palestinians instead of forcing them to live in horrendous conditions in the quest to force Israel into the sea?

    The answer is simple. It is a game and the miserable Arabs called Palestinians are clearly the pawns. Their lives are continually sacrificed in order to keep the pot boiling. If the folks in the Arab capitals who pull the strings wanted peace, they could order it to occur at 2 PM tomorrow, and it would.

    They always get what they want. However, peace is not what they want, is it?



    I don't know about the 2pm tomorrow thing but they could sure calm things down if they wanted to. This is all a farce with the Arab nations using the Palestinian people as a weapon against Israel. They could easily find places for them all to live in peace if they so desired.




    "There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

    But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

    Treating a 5,000-year-old birthright backed by overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence equally with illegitimate claims, wishes and wants gives diplomacy and peacekeeping a bad name." ----Joseph Farah
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/marvel-war-of-heroes/id536478373?mt=8
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  6. #66
    User Aleem's Avatar
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by akyron
    I don't know about the 2pm tomorrow thing but they could sure calm things down if they wanted to. This is all a farce with the Arab nations using the Palestinian people as a weapon against Israel. They could easily find places for them all to live in peace if they so desired.




    "There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

    But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.

    Treating a 5,000-year-old birthright backed by overwhelming historical and archaeological evidence equally with illegitimate claims, wishes and wants gives diplomacy and peacekeeping a bad name." ----Joseph Farah
    I got bored of this rotten zionistic rants .

    Palastine is a part of the arabic world which has its own language, culture....etc .
    The same as the states of USA .

    If zionists have occupied one state(e.g Utah) of USA, Will you ask the other states to spare a place for the citizens of the occupied state ?

    Would you then claim that zionists have the right because there's no language known as Utah'ian language nor was there a separate culture called Utah'ian own culture ? You should feel ashamed .

    And if i possess a whole continent, You still don't have any right to occupy ONE CENTIMETER SQUARE of my continent .
    And if you did, I'd have the whole right to kick you out of my property .

    And if it's a matter of size, Why don't you ask your mother (i.e USA) to spare 0.01 % of its vast lands for her beloved israel ?

    By the way, If you're talking about the historical right, Refer to my first post in this thread .


    "What is taken by force can't be restored without force "
    "Did ye then think that We had created you in jest, and that ye would not be brought back to Us (for account)?" (Qur'an)

  7. #67
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleem
    I got bored of this rotten zionistic rants .

    Palastine is a part of the arabic world which has its own language, culture....etc .
    The same as the states of USA .

    If zionists have occupied one state(e.g Utah) of USA, Will you ask the other states to spare a place for the citizens of the occupied state ?

    Would you then claim that zionists have the right because there's no language known as Utah'ian language nor was there a separate culture called Utah'ian own culture ? You should feel ashamed .

    And if i possess a whole continent, You still don't have any right to occupy ONE CENTIMETER SQUARE of my continent .
    And if you did, I'd have the whole right to kick you out of my property .

    And if it's a matter of size, Why don't you ask your mother (i.e USA) to spare 0.01 % of its vast lands for her beloved israel ?

    By the way, If you're talking about the historical right, Refer to my first post in this thread .


    "What is taken by force can't be restored without force "
    There is no way people can debate a subject unless there is some common ground. If you can't convince the other person by using their beliefs against them, then how can you do it? Yell in their face?
    When you are arguing against Him you are arguing against the very power that makes you able to argue at all.
    --C.S. Lewis, "Mere Christianity"

    Odd, the way the less the Bible is read the more it is translated.
    --C.S. Lewis, Letters (25 May 1962)

    Until you have given up your self to Him you will not have a real self...
    --C.S. Lewis, "Mere Christianity"

    Take the light of Christ to a cave.

  8. #68
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    It was prophesied the seed of Judah, Ephraim, and the other tribes would return and join together. Don't even try to stop it
    When you are arguing against Him you are arguing against the very power that makes you able to argue at all.
    --C.S. Lewis, "Mere Christianity"

    Odd, the way the less the Bible is read the more it is translated.
    --C.S. Lewis, Letters (25 May 1962)

    Until you have given up your self to Him you will not have a real self...
    --C.S. Lewis, "Mere Christianity"

    Take the light of Christ to a cave.

  9. #69
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    The actual state of Palastine did not come into existance until Partition, and after enduring milliniea of being subserviant to other nations including Egypt, The Ottomans, The Hittites, Assyrians, The British, The French, The Crusader states, the Saracins and many others. And for the first time the "Palastinians" were going to get a state of their own, and they got it, but it did not matter to them why? Because they had us the Jew's as their neighbors. They attacked us first and brought legions of Arab troops to whipe out the Jews, and by doing that they forfeit any right they had to their own state. They lost thier state due to their own reckless hate.

    On another note the Palastinians as a people did not come into existance until past 1967, at partition they were simply Jew hating Arabs. The populations were closer at the time of partition than they ever would be. The Arabs have lost all claim to the land and it is only by my countries good grace that we let them live in the Gaza Strip and West Bank. We are the ONLY nation in the middle east to accept Palastinian Refugees, no other nation will take their muslim brothers in. They want to lump them on us and breed as many terrorists as they can.

  10. #70
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by superskippy
    The actual state of Palastine did not come into existance until Partition, and after enduring milliniea of being subserviant to other nations including Egypt, The Ottomans, The Hittites, Assyrians, The British, The French, The Crusader states, the Saracins and many others. And for the first time the "Palastinians" were going to get a state of their own, and they got it, but it did not matter to them why? Because they had us the Jew's as their neighbors. They attacked us first and brought legions of Arab troops to whipe out the Jews, and by doing that they forfeit any right they had to their own state. They lost thier state due to their own reckless hate.

    On another note the Palastinians as a people did not come into existance until past 1967, at partition they were simply Jew hating Arabs. The populations were closer at the time of partition than they ever would be. The Arabs have lost all claim to the land and it is only by my countries good grace that we let them live in the Gaza Strip and West Bank. We are the ONLY nation in the middle east to accept Palastinian Refugees, no other nation will take their muslim brothers in. They want to lump them on us and breed as many terrorists as they can.
    The Arab is patient and will bide his time. The stated goal is to drive Israel into the sea. The UN mandates mean nothing to them.

    When it appears that the time is right the Arab nations will form up and another attempt will be made.

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