View Poll Results: Israel or Palestine?

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  • Israel. The UN created it for a reason

    23 31.51%
  • Palestine. It was their land.

    18 24.66%
  • Israel, but the land the UN gave them when first made.

    15 20.55%
  • Other (post below)

    17 23.29%
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Thread: Israel and Palestine

  1. #41
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hornburger
    I thought that in the Balfour Declaration both Palestine and Israel were created?

    Anyway, a mandate means that Britain was to manage the country until the people were ready to govern themselves. When Palestine was ready to govern themselves...it was supposed to be just that...Palestine...not Israel...lol
    There was no mention of which ethnic group should govern it however. The United Nations realized in 1948 that a single-state was impractical, so it created two states. The Jews accepted it, the Arabs did not, despite the fact that they have the rest of the land between the twin rivers and the Atlantic Ocean!
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  2. #42
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    I discovered that the jewes have succeeded in decieving the others and convicting them that they have a right in Palastine .

    Here is the truth :

    The oldest monuments found in Palastine belong to people called "Canaanites" who were tribes migrated from the arabian peninsula to inhabit the palastinian plains, Also there were tribes from the arabian peninsula called "Jabesians" who inhabited the region of Jerusalem, Also another arabian tribes called " Phoenicians" inhabited the mountians and the coasts of the Palastine, So we can find that Palastine land was divided among these arabian migrating tribes, So Palastine land is known among archaeologists as Land of Canaan attributed to Canaanites who were mentioned frankly in the holy books (Torah and Gospel) without any reference to jewes in that age .
    So we can conclude that the arabs were the first people who inhabited Land of Canaan ( Palastine ) .
    The name "Palastine" came from other tribes came from the island of "Crete" in the the Mediterranean Sea escaping from starvation, They came first to Egypt But they were repulsed by the pharaoh Rhamsis III and directed to the south of Land of Canaan in a region called "Palast" from which "Palastine" was derived .

    Untill now, There was no mention of jews, So How dare they claim what they never
    had ?

    In "Torah" : the Genesis 12 : 4-5 : Mentions that "Abraham with his family [ Sarah and Lot ] had migrated from Haran to the Land of Canaan", So We can see that Canaanites were present before Abraham who's the grandfather of Jacob whose children were Joseph and his 11 brothers from whom jews hail .

    Someone claimed that the Koran didn't mention "Jerusalem" even for once .
    He said so because he knows that you know nothing about Koran, And is not strange, As jewes are used to deception and fraudulence .

    Quran has mentioned " Jerusalem "

    But at first I want to tell you that in its natural language (Arabic), the Qur'an is the direct Word of Allah (God) to mankind through the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
    Any translation of the Qur'an no longer retains that 'official' and perfect status and immediately ceases to be the literal word of Allah, and hence cannot be equated with the Qur'an in its original Arabic form.
    In fact, the translation is actually an interpretation which has been translated.

    Here is the verse :

    In Surah(chapter) of Israa(The night journey), Verse : 1 :

    "Glory to ((Allah)) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things)."

    The sacred mosque is Ka'aba in Mecca while
    The farthest Mosque in Islam means the dome of the rock mosque in Jerusalem

    O' Jewes, Stop fabricating lies, Stop cheating, Stop violating the others rights, Stop commiting sins for which The Gog has cursed and damned you .

    Visit this page for more facts :
    http://www.islamonline.net/English/I...us/index.shtml
    Last edited by Aleem; 06-14-05 at 08:15 PM.
    "Did ye then think that We had created you in jest, and that ye would not be brought back to Us (for account)?" (Qur'an)

  3. #43
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    On the Issue of Israel and palestine,

    Did you know that non-Jewish Israelis cannot buy or lease land in Israel [the Zionist entity]?

    Did you know that cars owned by Palestinians are colour coded to distinguish Jews from non-Jews?


    Did you know Palestinians are not allowed to move from one city, say Gaza to Bethleham, to another without first getting a 'visa' from the Israelis?


    Did you know Palestinian youth, both Christians and Muslims are denied access to their Holy sites routinely?


    Did you know that Israel allots 85% of the water resources for Jews and the remaining 15% is divided among all Palestinians in the territories? For example in Hebron, 85% of the water is given to about 400 Jewish settlers, while 15% must be divided among Hebron's 120,000 Palestinians?


    Did you know the United States awards Israel $5 billion in aid each year?


    Did you know last year the trade between the UK and Israel increased by 20 per cent? The BRITECH trade agreement means there is now a 15.5 million joint fund to encourage co-operation between British and Israeli Hi-tech companies.


    Did you know that yearly US aid to Israel exceeds the aid the US grants to the whole of the African continent?


    Did you know that Israel is the only country in the Middle East that has nuclear weapons?


    Did you know that Israel is the only country in the Middle East that refuses to sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and bars international inspections from its sites?


    Did you know that Israel currently occupies territories of two sovereign nations (Lebanon and Syria) in defiance of United Nations Security Council resolutions?
    For the Jews who claim the land is theirs according to the Bible: God said to Abraham, "Unto thy SEED, I will give thy land." Abraham had TWO sons and TWO seeds. Ishmael -- the Arab son, and Isaac -- the Jewish son. The Bible even identifies Ishmael (the Arab son) as Abraham's son and seed: "And Hagar bore Abram a son: and Abram called his son's name, whom Hagar bore, Ishmael" (Holy Bible:Genesis 16:15). There is more in Genesis 17:23, 17:25, 17:26, 25:9, 25:12. So even if one wants to go to the Bible, the land would belong to both seeds of Abraham.


    Did you know that Israel has for decades routinely sent assassins into other countries including Europe to kill its political enemies?


    Did you know that high-ranking military officers in the Israeli Defence Forces [IDF] have admitted publicly that unarmed prisoners of war were executed by the IDF?


    Did you know that Israel refuses to prosecute its soldiers who have acknowledged executing Palestinian prisoners of war?


    Did you know that Israel routinely confiscates Palestinian bank accounts, businesses and land and refuses to pay compensation to those who suffer the confiscation?


    Did you know that Israel blew up an American diplomatic facility in Egypt and attacked a U.S. ship in international waters, killing 33 and wounding 177 American sailors?


    Did you know that the second most powerful lobby in the United States, according to a recent Fortune magazine survey of Washington insiders, is the Jewish AIPAC?


    Did you know that Israel stands in defiance of 69 United Nations Security Council Resolutions?


    Did you know that the land Jews call Israel today was the site of more than 400 [now-vanished] Palestinian villages, and that the Israeli's re- named almost every physical site in the country to cover up the traces?


    Did you know that it was not until 1988 that Israelis were barred from running "Jews Only" job ads?


    Did you know that four prime ministers of Israel, Begin, Shamir, Rabin, and Sharon have taken part in either bomb attacks on civilians, massacres of civilians, or forced expulsions of civilians from their villages?


    Did you know that the Israeli Foreign Ministry pays two American public relations firms to promote Israel to Americans?


    Did you know that Sharon's coalition government includes a party -- Molodet -- which advocates expelling all Palestinians from the occupied territories?


    Did you know Sharon was held responsible for the massacre of more than 2, 750 Palestinians in the refugee camps of Sabra and Chatila. The UN qualified the massacre by Sharon as GENOCIDE.


    Did you know Sharon's commando unit in 1953 razed the Palestinian village of Qibya killing all its citizens and bombed all the houses, mosque and schools.


    Did you know that Israel's settlement-building on Palestinian Land increased in the eight years since Oslo?


    Did you know that settlement building of Jewish only homes under Barak doubled compared to settlement building under Netanyahu?


    Did you know that Israel once dedicated a postage stamp to a man who attacked a Palestinian civilian bus and killed several people?


    Did you know that recently-declassified documents indicate that David Ben-Gurion in at least some instances approved of the expulsion of Palestinians in 1948?


    Did you know that despite a ban on torture by Israel's High Court of Justice, torture has continued by Shin Bet interrogators on Palestinian prisoners?


    Did you know that Palestinian refugees make up the largest portion of the refugee population in the world?


    Did you know the population of Palestine in 1917, when the Palestine problem was created by Britain in 1917,was more than 90% Palestinian Arabs? There were at that time no more than 56,000 Jews in Palestine?


    Did you know that during the thirty years of British occupation and rule, the Zionists were able to purchase only 3.5% of the land of Palestine, in spite of the encouragement of the British Government?... And that much of this land was transferred to Zionist bodies by the British Government directly, and was not sold by Arab owners.


    Did you know the Palestinians rejected UN Partition Plan because, the General Assembly of the United Nations recommended that a "Jewish State" be established in Palestine. They proposed the Jews should have about 54% of the total area of the country while they only owned 6% of the land.

    continued....
    One Solution, REVOLUTION!!!

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  4. #44
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    ...........

    Population of Municipal Jerusalem:

    Jews: approximately 430,000

    Palestinians: approximately 200,000

    Jerusalem Municipal Area (1948-67): 44km2 (11,000 acres)

    West Jerusalem: 38 km2 (9,500 acres)

    East Jerusalem: 6 km2 (1,500 acres)

    Jerusalem Municipal Area (post-1967): 108 km (27,000 acres), enlarging the Israeli-controlled city by two-third

    WHAT WAS ANNEXED

    70 km2 (70,000 dunums/17,600 acres) now comprising "East Jerusalem".

    Of these "East Jerusalem" lands, only 9% (6 km) comprised the Old City and its adjacent neighbourhoods.

    91% (64 km2) of the annexed lands belonged to 28 Palestinian villages which were never a part of the municipal area.

    23 km2 (23,000 dunums/5,700 acres) of the lands expropriated were owned privately by Palestinians.

    In all, 60% of what is claimed as "unified Jerusalem" (64 km2 out of 108 km2 was never part of Jerusalem at all but rather part of the West Bank)

    UNIFIED! GREATER! & METROPOLITAN! JERUSALEM!

    In 1995 the Israeli government approved the "Metropolitan Jerusalem Plan" that envisioned "Three Jerusalem":

    Municipal Jerusalem includes West Jerusalem and all the lands of "East Jerusalem" expropriated in 1967. It has been "secured" by an "inner ring" of Israeli-only satellite cities that today contain some 250,000 Jewish residents: Ramot, Rekhes Shuafat, Pisgat Zeev, Neveh Yaakov, French Hill, East Tapilot, Har Homa, and Gilo.

    Greater Jerusalem includes an "outer ring" of settlements across the Green Line which are being integrated into the Jerusalem urban fabric. This "outer ring", which today has 50,000 Jewish residents but is projected to grow to 250,000 in 15 years, includes the satellite cities of: Har Adar, Givat Zeev, New Givon, Kiryat Sefer, Maaleh Adumim, Efrata, the Etzion Bloc and Beitar Illit.

    Metropolitan Jerusalem, described as a regional plan, will incorporate a full 40% of the West Bank (440 km2). Since it incorporates large Palestinian towns and cities (Ramallah, El Bireh, Beit Sahour, Bethlehem and Beit Jalla), massive building work is to be undertaken to preserve the 72%-28% Jewish majority in the entire region. Metropolitan Jerusalem contains about 75% of the West Bank settler population and up to 80% of construction over the past decade. In its last days, the Netanyahu government approved 142,000 housing units in the "Jewish Sector" of Metropolitan Jerusalem.

    Accelerated construction has taken place over the past few months of "ring roads" and "by-pass roads" connecting the various parts of the metropolitan "Jewish Sector".

    A REGIONAL WEDGE

    Jerusalem in its "greater" and "metropolitan" forms is being transformed from a city into a regional wedge which will:
    (1) Effectively divide the northern part of the West Bank from the southern part. (2) Isolate Jerusalems Palestinian population from their wider society, and
    (3) Create a "corridor" from Tel Aviv to Amman which effectively marginalizes the West Bank population even from the wider Arab world, ensuring Israeli control over any Palestinian entity which might emerge.

    DISCRIMINATORY PLANNING

    Between 1967-1995, 76,151 housing units were built in East Jerusalem. 88% of them (64,880) were built for Jews with government subsidies and other kinds of support, and only 12% (8,880) for Palestinians, almost all on private property and with private financial resources.

    As of 1996 there were 23,073 Arab housing units in Jerusalem, most of them overcrowded (2.2 persons per room, vs. 1.1 in the Jewish sector). To meet only the existing needs of the Palestinian population, an additional 21,000 units must be built. The Municipality grants 150 permits a year for Arab housing and demolishes between 20-50 homes a year.

    Securing a building permit does not guarantee adequate housing. In most cases Palestinians are permitted to build on only 25% of their land, since they have a small plot (which most working-class Palestinians in Jerusalem do), the house they are allowed to build is extremely small. Additional rooms added as the family grows or due to the inability of married sons to obtain building permits for their own families, thus forcing them to continue living with their parents are often demolished. A basic house might stand, but it cannot be enlarged to accommodate a growing familys needs. By contrast, Israeli contractors are allowed to enlarge by 150% or more the size of the property. Jewish-Israelis, then, are able to acquire roomy apartments in medium- or high-rise buildings, or are able to purchase spacious "villas" 21,000 Palestinian residents of Jerusalem suffer from chronically inadequate housing.

    While no law prohibits Palestinian from buying on the open market as well, the hostility and violence they would face from their Jewish-Israeli neighbours is enough to dissuade them from moving outside the confines of their own crowded quarters.

    Although the Palestinian population comprises some 30% of the citys population, it receives only 11% of the municipalitys budget for urban services. Much of East Jerusalem is lacking such basic services as sewage systems, roads, parks, lighting, schools and community services.

    GHETTOIZATION

    In the meantime, Palestinian residents of Jerusalem are confined to highly circumscribed parts of "East Jerusalem" Of its 70,000 dunums,

    35% has been expropriated for Israeli neighbourhoods, roads and other facilities.

    An additional 54% is forbidden for Palestinian construction (for various reasons such as security or zoned "green spaces").

    Only 11% of East Jerusalem land is left for Palestinian housing and other needs.

    Although the citys 200,000 Palestinian residents make up about a third of the total population, they have access to only 3.5% of the citys total urban space for their housing and community needs.

    The Municipalitys officially declared policy is to maintain a 72%-28% majority of Jews over Palestinians in Jerusalem.

    LAND EXPROPRIATION

    In 1997 alone, it was estimated that 20,000 dunums of land were confiscated from outlying areas of the city for settlement expansion.

    Construction has begun at Jabal Abu Ghneim (Har Homa), and plans are afoot for a number of housing units for Jewish families at Silwan, named by the Israelis "The City of David".

    In the Old City, Ateret Cohanim, a religious-messianic-settler organisation supported by the government, is seeking to expel the Muslim population from the Old City altogether. The Bab al-Huta neighbourhood in the Old City has become one of the latest targets for settlers. On Israeli Election Day, 1999, work began on the Israeli housing project in Ras el-Amud.

    HOUSE DEMOLITIONS

    10,000 Palestinian housing units have been declared "illegal"; some 2000 demolition orders are outstanding.

    Demolition of Palestinian homes in Jerusalem is carried out by both Municipality and the Ministry of Interior.

    In East Jerusalem, house demolitions orders concern mainly new buildings and additional floors, while in West Jerusalem demolition orders relate to utilization of spaces not authorised, such as verandas or minor addition, Jewish houses are never demolished.

    THE QUIET TRANSFER

    In additional to discriminatory planning policies designed to maintain a severe housing shortage for the Palestinian population and the demolition of "illegal" Palestinian homes, the government and municipality attempt to make living conditions so difficult for Palestinian that they will leave the city altogether (the Quiet Transfer).

    Between 1996 and May 1999, 2,200 ID cards have been confiscated, forcing some 8,800 Palestinian Jerusalemites into exile or illegal existence in their own homes.

    According to a recent Btselem report (1997), the "system" works as follows:
    The Jerusalem Municipality expropriates land, prevents preparation of a town planning scheme for Palestinian neighbourhoods and refuse to grant building permits, causing a severe housing shortage, forcing residents to build without a permit, after which the Ministry of Interior and the Municipality demolish the house, so the residents move into homes outside the city, and then the Ministry of Interior revokes their residency rights and banishes them from the city forever.

    ......................................

    On looking at the above, I guessed that you will have realised that I voted "Palestine, Its their Land!"
    One Solution, REVOLUTION!!!

    http://www.marxist.net/images/trotsky2.jpg

  5. #45
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    [QUOTE=Trotsky]...........

    Population of Municipal Jerusalem:

    Jews: approximately 430,000

    Palestinians: approximately 200,000

    Jerusalem Municipal Area (1948-67): 44km2 (11,000 acres)

    West Jerusalem: 38 km2 (9,500 acres)

    East Jerusalem: 6 km2 (1,500 acres)

    Jerusalem Municipal Area (post-1967): 108 km (27,000 acres), enlarging the Israeli-controlled city by two-third
    Statistics. Welcome to the site Comrade.
    1. The Jews have a speck of land surrounded by a huge area of Arab land which residing in is a great many people who want to kill them. And they do. With bombs. Often targeted at children. Solve that problem and just maybe the Jews will talk about land. Do you think if the Jews accepted 100 percent of the Arabs demands they would then stop trying to blow up their children?

    thats all just one point the rest in my eyes is moot

    but anyway
    2. Why can't the Palestinians Arab "brothers" spare a little DESERT?

  6. #46
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by teacher
    Welcome to the site Comrade.
    1. The Jews have a speck of land surrounded by a huge area of Arab land which residing in is a great many people who want to kill them. And they do. With bombs. Often targeted at children. Solve that problem and just maybe the Jews will talk about land. Do you think if the Jews accepted 100 percent of the Arabs demands they would then stop trying to blow up their children?
    Yes.

    2. Why can't the Palestinians Arab "brothers" spare a little DESERT?
    They probably could, but then when part of their desert was spared, it really wasn't their choice. I mean couldn't those damned Native American have just spared a few colonies?
    I will let no man drag me down so low as to make me hate him. - Booker T. Washington

    Nonviolence means avoiding not only external physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

    I believe that a man is the strongest soldier for daring to die unarmed. - Mohandas K Gandhi

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    Props to ArchEnemy. My signature rocks hard.

  7. #47
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandhi>Bush
    Yes.
    That then my friend, may be the crux of the difference between us. I think they would keep on killing. Now where?

  8. #48
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by teacher
    statistics. Welcome to the site Comrade.
    1. The Jews have a speck of land surrounded by a huge area of Arab land which residing in is a great many people who want to kill them. And they do. With bombs. Often targeted at children. Solve that problem and just maybe the Jews will talk about land. Do you think if the Jews accepted 100 percent of the Arabs demands they would then stop trying to blow up their children?

    thats all just one point the rest in my eyes is moot

    but anyway
    2. Why can't the Palestinians Arab "brothers" spare a little DESERT?

    The thief is speaking !

    I could not endure your offensive ugly logic, Mr Teacher .

    If i possess a huge countless fortune of my own, You don't have any right to seize even an iota of it, And if you did, It's still considered as a theft you must be punished for .
    It's a matter of "The right" NOT "The size", Mr thief .

    Being the owner of a huge palace does not give you any right to usurp even One meter square of my property, Mr Thief .

    Jewes have no right in even a hand span of Palastine .

    I think that you said these delutions as a result of Mr Trotsky's knockout against your disgraceful allegations which have been overwhelmingly confuted by Mr Trotsky's post .

    Tell me, Are the jewish childeren more precious than our children ?
    When they kill us, You shut up, And when we kill them, You shout ?
    with the difference that they kill us to assault our rights, While we kill them to defend our rights .

    Are not you ashamed of yourself ? I don't know what you teach Mr Teacher, But i can guess .

    Watch these photos showing your jewes enjoying humiliating palastinians ...

    Photo 1
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    Let me tell you what Allah(The God) tells us about jews in Qur'an :

    Surah(Chapter) of Al-Maeda(The Table Spread), Verses: 82,83,84 :

    "(82)Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. (83)And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses. (84) "What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?" "

    Allah knows best whom he created .
    "Did ye then think that We had created you in jest, and that ye would not be brought back to Us (for account)?" (Qur'an)

  9. #49
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleem
    Watch these photos showing your jewes enjoying humiliating palastinians ...

    Goooooo, Palestinians, fight back!

  10. #50
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleem
    !

    I could not endure your offensive ugly logic, Mr Teacher .
    Logic, no matter how offensive, is still logic.


    Jewes have no right in even a hand span of Palastine .
    Clue number 1.

    Tell me, Are the jewish childeren more precious than our children ?
    When they kill us, You shut up, And when we kill them, You shout ?
    The terrorists target children. Any children killed by Isreal are collateral damage hit while military leaders were targeted. How ever you try to word it to your favor does not change the facts. Don't bother trying, it just exposes your true self. Clue number 2.


    Watch these photos showing your jewes enjoying humiliating palastinians ...
    Thr restraint of the Jews is amazing. If my children had been targeted with bombs I would be covered in Arab blood, head to toe, day and night, for a long, long time.

    Let me tell you what Allah(The God) tells us about jews in Qur'an :
    Clue number 3.

    Surah(Chapter) of Al-Maeda(The Table Spread), Verses: 82,83,84 :

    "(82)Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant. (83)And when they listen to the revelation received by the Messenger, thou wilt see their eyes overflowing with tears, for they recognise the truth: they pray: "Our Lord! we believe; write us down among the witnesses. (84) "What cause can we have not to believe in Allah and the truth which has come to us, seeing that we long for our Lord to admit us to the company of the righteous?" "

    Allah knows best whom he created .
    Religious rhetoric. I'm assuming Allah gave you a brain. Hiding behind scripture to justify your hatred?

    Egypt eh? This will be easy. The only thing I've learned from you is you hate Jews. And any who side with them. Still mad cause they kicked your ass in a war? Then took your **** and you cry? Like the schoolyard bully that gets knocked down then cries to authority. What do I teach. Look at all facts and weigh them carefully. Decide on morality. Gloves off. Egypt? Look at the human rights in your country. Stone age. America is civilized. Get with the friggin program. Don't look around you. Freedom is creeping its way to you from Iraq. It's coming. Hold on to your savage religious beliefs while you can. The Jews can kick your ass and take all your **** any time they want. Yet they don't. You on the other hand resort to cowardly attacks against children. While doing this you whine to the rest of the world. You are cowards. You are bad fighters. You are uncivilized. You are oppressive. You are brainwashed by religion. You are evil. America is wiping your ilk from the face of the Earth. In the future when all nations are free you savage barbarians will only be a embarrassing footnote. You've been losing, are losing, and will keep losing your little Jihad. If you are backed by god, why is that?

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