View Poll Results: Israel or Palestine?

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  • Israel. The UN created it for a reason

    23 31.51%
  • Palestine. It was their land.

    18 24.66%
  • Israel, but the land the UN gave them when first made.

    15 20.55%
  • Other (post below)

    17 23.29%
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Thread: Israel and Palestine

  1. #31
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hornburger
    haha sorry I'm slow and the whole thing can get confusing lol...so basically Israel wasn't created until 1948 while Palestine was a mandate in 1920?
    THat is correct. However, that doesn't mean Palestine was meant to be an Arab state. THat was not mentioned in the League mandate.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    I believe that both have a right to the land (accounting both the British designation of an Arab homeland as well as the historic value of that land for the Jews), yet Israel does not have entitlement to Gaza or West Bank settlements. The nationalism in Israel is greatly threatening Palestinian sovereignty - the Israeli citizens and government then blame the revolutionary Palestinian groups for agitation to cover-up for their struggles, and this further goads the whole thing.

    I believe in both, I believe in the general guidelines of the roadrap, and I don't believe in a deviation from the UN-established course.

    - Holocaustpulp

  3. #33
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by holocaustpulp
    I believe that both have a right to the land (accounting both the British designation of an Arab homeland as well as the historic value of that land for the Jews), yet Israel does not have entitlement to Gaza or West Bank settlements. The nationalism in Israel is greatly threatening Palestinian sovereignty - the Israeli citizens and government then blame the revolutionary Palestinian groups for agitation to cover-up for their struggles, and this further goads the whole thing.

    I believe in both, I believe in the general guidelines of the roadrap, and I don't believe in a deviation from the UN-established course.

    - Holocaustpulp
    Don't forget that Israel conquered the land in a war that occurred as a result of Egypt committing an act of war when it blocked the Gulf of Aquba to Israeli shipping.
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  4. #34
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    I went to the web site that is posted with this message and I found nothing that tells me its contents are accurate.

    This a web site that contains United Nations documents and summaries of the Palestine/Israel issue:

    http://www.un.org/depts/dpa/qpalnew/overview.htm

    If you are interested in the Middle East, I strongly recommend reading these reports. The United Nations has been following this for quite a long time and they are probably the most knowledgeable that I have found.

    Whether the land was ever officially called Palestine or not is irrelevent. The Jewish people that lived there left and the people whom call themselves Palestinians made it their home. Then a small number of Jewish Zionists decided they wanted it back. If the previous owner of the home you live in suddenly came back and took it from you, would you give it up freely? It is true that the British promised "a" home for Jews in Palestine, but it did not promise Palestine to be "the" home for them.

    This is the Balfour Declaration of 1917 that the Zionists used to get the land from Britain:

    "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

    As it is clearly stated, "...nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."

    There are endless facts involved in this issue in these United Nations documents and summaries. Almost all of them result in the land belonging to the Palistinians.

  5. #35
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by alex
    This is the Balfour Declaration of 1917 that the Zionists used to get the land from Britain:

    "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

    As it is clearly stated, "...nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine..."

    There are endless facts involved in this issue in these United Nations documents and summaries. Almost all of them result in the land belonging to the Palistinians.
    In reality, the Balfour Declaration is not a binding document in the eyes of international law, so you can't use a clause in it to make a legal case that you are trying to make.

    The legally binding events are 1. the awarding of the mandate to Britain by the League following World War I, and 2. The creation of the State of Israel by the United Nations in 1948. That resolution created two states, Israel and Palestine. Israel accepted it and declared independence. The Arabs did NOT accept the UN declaration and declared war.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    I think its Palestine's land then...if Israel was created in 1920 I would say it would be okay because the Allies conquered the Ottoman Empire...but that was no the case. It seems as though the Allies were only making Israel because of the guilt they felt after the Holocaust. Palestine was the sole mandate that occupied that land-not Israel...so I think Palestine now.
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  7. #37
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai
    In reality, the Balfour Declaration is not a binding document in the eyes of international law, so you can't use a clause in it to make a legal case that you are trying to make.

    The legally binding events are 1. the awarding of the mandate to Britain by the League following World War I, and 2. The creation of the State of Israel by the United Nations in 1948. That resolution created two states, Israel and Palestine. Israel accepted it and declared independence. The Arabs did NOT accept the UN declaration and declared war.
    Just because something is legally binding does not make it right. In reality, the Jewish Zionists used the Balfour Declaration to obtain an Israeli State in Palestine. No one can just go to The United Nations and ask for land. They used the declaration as a leg to stand on. They also knew the influence that The United States had in The United Nations and they took advantage of it. The Arab people tried using diplomatic means to have the land returned to the Palestinians, but they were ignore. Britain gave independence to all the Arab nations it was mandated except Palestine. The United Nations acknowledges this an it is well documented by them. The only means left for the Arab people was war. When anyone is pushed to far into a corner, they will do whatever they have to in order to get out. There is right and there is wrong-- it is wrong to take people's homes from them, no matter how you try to reason it.

    Another fact that I think is interesting is that most Jewish people at the time did not want an official homeland. They were scattered around different countries and feared having a homeland would make them foreigners where they lived.

  8. #38
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by Hornburger
    I think its Palestine's land then...if Israel was created in 1920 I would say it would be okay because the Allies conquered the Ottoman Empire...but that was no the case. It seems as though the Allies were only making Israel because of the guilt they felt after the Holocaust. Palestine was the sole mandate that occupied that land-not Israel...so I think Palestine now.
    Who was living there in 1920? Both Jews and Arabs were. The notion of a Palestinian nationality is equally as artificial as Syrian, Jordanian, etc. Most of the nation-states in that area are modern constructions as they were under one empire or another for most of the previous 1200 years. The fact is that Jews and Arabs have both been living side by side in that area for hundreds of years while the Ottomons were hegemonic over the region.

    The "Palestine" mandate wasn't to create a home for Arabs or Jews, it was just given over for Britain to manage. It just so happens that in 1920, that region had a higher proportion of Jewish people compared to the other mandatory territories and, 2, it was an area that Jews had decided to immigrate to.

    I favor a two-state solution, only one when we can say that the security of Israel is assured. The United Nations did create the state. The Arabs have little to complain about as it is a TINY FRACTION of the land that they possess from the Tigris-Euphrates to the Atlantic Ocean!
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  9. #39
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    I thought that in the Balfour Declaration both Palestine and Israel were created?

    Anyway, a mandate means that Britain was to manage the country until the people were ready to govern themselves. When Palestine was ready to govern themselves...it was supposed to be just that...Palestine...not Israel...lol
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  10. #40
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    Re: Israel and Palestine

    Quote Originally Posted by V.I. Lenin
    Which one should own the land?

    The land originally belonged to Israel for centurys til Roman soldiers overran it and dispersed the jews. They have sought to get back to their homeland ever since and deserve far more than what they have now.
    Bob A.

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