View Poll Results: What does "sociail justice" mean to you?

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  • Equality

    15 23.08%
  • Solidarity

    7 10.77%
  • Wealth redistribution

    23 35.38%
  • Socialism

    20 30.77%
  • Justice

    19 29.23%
  • Unjustice

    14 21.54%
  • Good

    9 13.85%
  • Evil

    10 15.38%
  • Prosperity

    7 10.77%
  • Other

    18 27.69%
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Thread: Social justice

  1. #41
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Yeah, right.

    And what is right and what isn't will decide... who? Let me guess - the Leader.
    As in this old anekdote.

    1. The boss is always right.
    2. If the boss isn't right, see point 1.

    You guessed wrong .... what is right is the whole question of moral or social philosophy. In the question of justice I'd say whats "right" is what's "fair" or "just."

    But I don't get the point of your post there, other than trying to setup a strawman, no one has argued "the leader decides" I've never even gotten close to arguing that, it's pretty silly of you to insinuate that.

  2. #42
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    You guessed wrong .... what is right is the whole question of moral or social philosophy. In the question of justice I'd say whats "right" is what's "fair" or "just."
    What's just... Hm, let me give it a shot then.

    Flat tax is fair, progressive isn't.
    Equality is fair, privileges are not.
    From each according his abilities, to each according his contribution/merits - fair
    From each according his abilities, to each according his needs - NOT fair

    That's what is fair to me. Agree?

  3. #43
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    What's just... Hm, let me give it a shot then.

    Flat tax is fair, progressive isn't.
    Equality is fair, privileges are not.
    From each according his abilities, to each according his contribution/merits - fair
    From each according his abilities, to each according his needs - NOT fair

    That's what is fair to me. Agree?
    I agree that it's fair to YOU, but I don't agree.

    A flat tax is not just, because the point of taxation is making sure society can function well and is funded, and thus taxation should do the least damage possible to individual finances, and a 10% on a poor person does MUCH MORE DAMAGE than 10% on a billionare in real life consequences.

    Of coarse equality is fair and privileges are not, but in practice it's almost impossible to get that ideal, we should strive for it though.

    To each according to his contribution/merits depends 100% on how one judges or measures contribution or merit, the market doesn't measure it correctly, or on what basis one measures it, it's impossible to really measure merit or contribution. Take a factory, what does the guy doing security contribute? How do you measure that? Or a teacher ... how do you measure that?

    Also who says that the purpose for work should be material compensation? I think the purpose is to make society run, to make things work, and in a REAL democratic society, where youre work and output is truely controlled by yourself and you have a say over the things that effect you, the whole idea of wages/profit doesn't make sense.

  4. #44
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I agree that it's fair to YOU, but I don't agree.
    See, that's what I was writing about. The position of rightness is a matter of power/authority, not fairness.
    That's what bothers me with this "social justice" - it implies rightness when it is just a statement. That is, the one who is talking social justice is playing God.

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    A flat tax is not just, because the point of taxation is making sure society can function well and is funded, and thus taxation should do the least damage possible to individual finances, and a 10% on a poor person does MUCH MORE DAMAGE than 10% on a billionare in real life consequences.
    Well, I can pretend to be God too and say - NO, it's the other way round! What does that prove? Nothing.

  5. #45
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    See, that's what I was writing about. The position of rightness is a matter of power/authority, not fairness.
    That's what bothers me with this "social justice" - it implies rightness when it is just a statement. That is, the one who is talking social justice is playing God.
    In that case ANYONE that makes ANY "should" statement, even "everyone should have liberty" it playing God, we are gonna have to make moral decisions sometimes, and we are going to have to make ethical choices on how we relate to society.

    I don't think might makes right, I think there IS a moral reality, and I can be mistaken about it, so can you, so can everyone else, but we have to try.

    Well, I can pretend to be God too and say - NO, it's the other way round! What does that prove? Nothing.
    Ok ... But we still have to find out how to relate to each other in a society ...

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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Ok ... But we still have to find out how to relate to each other in a society ...
    Look no further. We will relate MY WAY.

    /thread

  7. #47
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Look no further. We will relate MY WAY.

    /thread
    Ok ... I don't get what your point is here, are you leaving DP now since you think there is nothing to talk about when it comes to politics?

  8. #48
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Ok ... I don't get what your point is here, are you leaving DP now since you think there is nothing to talk about when it comes to politics?
    No, I was just debunking "social justice". You were defending it. We made our statements. Who is right and who is wrong (if ever) only God knows.

  9. #49
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    No, I was just debunking "social justice". You were defending it. We made our statements. Who is right and who is wrong (if ever) only God knows.
    That isn't debunking "social justice" it's debunking ALL political theories, and ALL moral statements, infact it's debunking ALL value statements in general. If that's true than there is no justice, there is no right or wrong, there is nothing.

    I don't buy that, there are things that are "good."

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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    , and ALL moral statements...
    The word "morality" is very dangerous.

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