View Poll Results: What does "sociail justice" mean to you?

Voters
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  • Equality

    15 23.08%
  • Solidarity

    7 10.77%
  • Wealth redistribution

    23 35.38%
  • Socialism

    20 30.77%
  • Justice

    19 29.23%
  • Unjustice

    14 21.54%
  • Good

    9 13.85%
  • Evil

    10 15.38%
  • Prosperity

    7 10.77%
  • Other

    18 27.69%
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Thread: Social justice

  1. #151
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    oh of coarse, in principle rights are rights.

    Property is not a right though, it doens't exist in a state of nature, it needs violence to exist.

    I can talk without the state, it requires violence to make me stop, thus freedom of speach.

    If I claim that a large swathe of land is my land it is nothing more than an empty claim without the threat of violence, so property is NOT a right.

    As far as smoking, yes, if you own a restaurant your providing a public service, your property is protected by the community and recognized as such, and as thus the community has a right to say if you wnat to have a restaurant in our community, we want it to be smoke free, becasue we want people to be able to use public services in our community without fear of second hand smoke.....
    life liberty and the........ pursuit of happiness, has been translated into property.

    I also refer you to the founders who state the right to property is the same as the right to free speech.



    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    You're just making that up, that isn't what a "republic" means, there are many different types of republics, also the states are also (in theory) in the hands of the people.

    A democratic government CAN and generally does, have checks and balances and constitutions.

    The states are also democratic ....

    I refer you to the constitution article 4 section 4

  2. #152
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    life liberty and the........ pursuit of happiness, has been translated into property.

    I also refer you to the founders who state the right to property is the same as the right to free speech.
    I thought rights were not up to people?

    Also the founders didnt' say that the right to property was more important than the common good.

    I refer you to the constitution article 4 section 4
    Where does that define it differently than what I said?

  3. #153
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    I thought rights were not up to people?

    Also the founders didnt' say that the right to property was more important than the common good.
    you or I cannot vote to take rights away from another person because how he uses/exercises them his rights...just to make ourselves happy.





    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Where does that define it differently than what I said?
    it states the federal government and every state government is republican government.

  4. #154
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you or I cannot vote to take rights away from another person because how he uses/exercises them his rights...just to make ourselves happy.
    That wasn't my question, I had an argumetn that property rights were not fundemental rights.

    You're argument was "the founders said so," which implies that your rights depend on what a couple dudes hundreds of years ago said.

    it states the federal government and every state government is republican government.
    Yeah .... That isn't a definitional statement, it doesn't say what the definition of a republican government IS, I explained what it means in my previous post, it isn't distinct from a democratic government at all.

  5. #155
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    That wasn't my question, I had an argumetn that property rights were not fundemental rights.

    You're argument was "the founders said so," which implies that your rights depend on what a couple dudes hundreds of years ago said..
    all you have told me is, you don't believe the men who created the constitution and the DOI

    right to property is the corner stone of all rights, without a right to property, everything would belong to the state.

    of coarse you do understand the communist manifesto calls for the abolishment of all property rights


    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    Yeah .... That isn't a definitional statement, it doesn't say what the definition of a republican government IS, I explained what it means in my previous post, it isn't distinct from a democratic government at all.
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-con...overnment.html

    The Republican Form of government is one in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the people and are exercised by the people, either directly, or through representatives chosen by the people, to whom those powers are specially delegated. individuals retain sovereign prerogatives over their private property rights (absolute ownership) of their person, labor and property.


    the democratic form of government, in which the powers of sovereignty are vested in the whole body of free citizens, individuals do not retain sovereign prerogatives over their private property rights (absolute ownership) of their person, labor and property.

    The U.S. Constitution guarantees a republican form to the states. (See Art.4,Sec.4)

  6. #156
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    No they arn't, you can sack your insurence company and try get another one, but good luck with that, the companies know you NEED insurance and will gouge you, like they do, for more and more profits, the individual purchasers need the insurance company, not vise versa, the insurance companies know this, and then when you get sick they'll put you in debt, lessening your options even more, and limiting your actual freedom.
    Yeah. Just like I need food and shelter, right? Which is why government housing and government food is such higher quality.

    Insurance companies can only abuse me to the extent that government enables them to do so by protecting them from competition. Which, agreeably, is currently to say quite a bit.

    Public healthcare is beholdent to the voters in the end,
    No it's not, except in the most theoretical of states. No ones' healthcare is beholden to the voters. At best general arguments about the shape and funding is beholden to the voters. If the election is on that single issue.

    The progressive idea of liberty is ACTUAL freedom,
    Yeah.



    No thanks.

  7. #157
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucker View Post
    No. In Canada, the government makes zero decisions about health care
    Gosh. Makes you wonder why they have such a large bureaucracy devoted to doing just that, then, huh?

  8. #158
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    capital equality.
    Could you elaborate on this, please.

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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by RGacky3 View Post
    oh of coarse, in principle rights are rights.

    Property is not a right though, it doens't exist in a state of nature, it needs violence to exist.
    On the contrary, every animal in nature has a feeling of own territory, especially nests and dens.
    OK, try this one - give a bone to your dog and try to take it back. Unless you have a very civilized or dribbler dog, the chances are you will get bitten. How about that for property rights?

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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Gosh. Makes you wonder why they have such a large bureaucracy devoted to doing just that, then, huh?
    What i meant was that there are no bureaucrats sitting about and discussing what should or should'tbe done, re individuals and their health care.

    (There are bureacracies sitting around and doing exactly that for you, however. "Death panels" is more of a private insurance concept that a universal health care one.)

    After all. one of the arguments y'all have been having for universal health care is that it's more efficient and bureaucratically cheaper than the system you'e using now.

    And again, I'm not declaring that it's the necessary way to go. That's an American choice.

    You, however, don't quite seem to grasp that the Amrican method of...well, everything, might not always be inherently superior.

    Not exactly a controversial suggestion.
    ...for perhaps the most admirable among the admirable laws of Nature is the survival of the weakest.
    --Vladimir Nabokov

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