View Poll Results: What does "sociail justice" mean to you?

Voters
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  • Equality

    15 23.08%
  • Solidarity

    7 10.77%
  • Wealth redistribution

    23 35.38%
  • Socialism

    20 30.77%
  • Justice

    19 29.23%
  • Unjustice

    14 21.54%
  • Good

    9 13.85%
  • Evil

    10 15.38%
  • Prosperity

    7 10.77%
  • Other

    18 27.69%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Social justice

  1. #121
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Wow, are you saying the "nanny state" should rule the day?
    Well, he's British. Not for him the animating contest of freedom - far better the lukewarm embrace of the soulless state office waiting room, the gentle ministrations of Health and Safety.

  2. #122
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    We've been through this already on another thread. People choose their own governance on an individual basis. Commies choose to follow the rules of their commie friends, socialists go with the socialists, etc. No group needs to limit the actions of another unless a very few basic natural rights are infringed upon. These rights are universal in that they are in the best interests of all the groups regardless of their beliefs.
    Actually, I didn't get a very convincing answer from your thread, so I am asking the same question to another person who happens to strongly dislike democracy. Maybe Ernst has a better solution that allows for more freedom, peace and prosperity than we have today under our current limited democracies, and hopefully better than your anarchistic police state.

    Relevant to this thread, and very interesting, is how an alternative to democracy could also deliver social justice to both the individual and the society he lives in. And should the alternative form of governance even consider what is best for the society and just focus on the individual?
    Last edited by kenc; 05-22-13 at 07:47 AM. Reason: spelling

  3. #123
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    better than your anarchistic police state.

    You were the one advocating for a police state (one with a complete monopoly at that). I was advocating for a state in which police are only even relevant if people break one of three basic, ethically justifiable natural rights of those around them. You wanted a system where people are forced to participate by threat of violence and imprisonment. I wanted a system where we don't get to force others into participating in anything other than respecting 3 fundamental rights of human beings.

  4. #124
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post

    You were the one advocating for a police state (one with a complete monopoly at that). I was advocating for a state in which police are only even relevant if people break one of three basic, ethically justifiable natural rights of those around them. You wanted a system where people are forced to participate by threat of violence and imprisonment. I wanted a system where we don't get to force others into participating in anything other than respecting 3 fundamental rights of human beings.
    Let's keep this thread and your thread separated. I'll respond to this nonsense in your thread.

  5. #125
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    So, how does a completely undemocratic society work? People have no say at all in how they are governed. Who decides conflict resolution? And I really don't care what a bunch of slaveowners and aristocratic men thought in the 1700's. Let's stick to the hear and now, and real life, not theory.
    in republican government, the people also have a say in government, they elect representatives also, however power in NOT only in the hands of the people,..... but the states themselves also.

    republican government separates power.....one of the checks and balances or government.

    if you put absolute power directly into, 1 person or a few, and all of the people, it will become tyrannical, and that is a fact.

    that is why James Madison says in federalist 47.."The accumulation of all powers, legislative, executive, and judiciary, in the same hands, whether of one, a few, or many, and whether hereditary, selfappointed, or elective, may justly be pronounced the very definition of tyranny.

    the elective is the voting public, it you give them all of the power to vote directly for every federal politician, it is tyranny, becuase the people will use that power, and the majority of that power will take away rights of the minority.

    that is why states have power per the 10th amendment to stop majority rule, if it should rear its ugly head.

    in democratic government rights are not secure, because the majority can changes rights wherever they wish, rights are not unalienable.

    in republican government, rights are secure, becuase the majority has no power to change or abolish rights, no matter if 99 % of the people want to...becuase rights are unalienable

  6. #126
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post

    You were the one advocating for a police state (one with a complete monopoly at that). I was advocating for a state in which police are only even relevant if people break one of three basic, ethically justifiable natural rights of those around them. You wanted a system where people are forced to participate by threat of violence and imprisonment. I wanted a system where we don't get to force others into participating in anything other than respecting 3 fundamental rights of human beings.
    very good!

  7. #127
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Wow, are you saying the "nanny state" should rule the day?
    LOL! Nothing wrong with nannies - I was brought up by one (until I went away to school).

    But I don't know how you got 'the nanny state' out of anything I wrote. Evolving a system wherein no one is allowed to suffer because of poor decisions (often the result of circumstances beyond their control) is neither immoral nor impractical. The epithet 'nanny state' is a meaningless derogative used by some conservatives to criticise humane systems (with which they obviously do not agree).

    The poll and OP inquired as to what we understand by the phrase 'social justice', and I gave my understanding. I would be more interested in hearing your understanding rather than your misapprehension of my words.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  8. #128
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Well, he's British. Not for him the animating contest of freedom - far better the lukewarm embrace of the soulless state office waiting room, the gentle ministrations of Health and Safety.
    LOL, you have a way with words. Now work on the understanding of societal differences. Not every society values the fierce embrace of commercial expediency above all things.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  9. #129
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    LOL, you have a way with words. Now work on the understanding of societal differences. Not every society values the fierce embrace of commercial expediency above all things.
    I think it's funny you suggested I work on understanding societal differences, an then proceeded to speak to the exact same item I identified. But thank you .

  10. #130
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    But I don't know how you got 'the nanny state' out of anything I wrote.
    Well you want the state to save people from their mistakes. Ironically that's exactly what a nanny does with an infant.
    People have a right to their mistakes.
    If you go trough all the discussion, you would see we agreed that "social justice" is about "equal rights" and not redistribution of wealth and services. No privileges to anyone.

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