View Poll Results: What does "sociail justice" mean to you?

Voters
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  • Equality

    15 23.08%
  • Solidarity

    7 10.77%
  • Wealth redistribution

    23 35.38%
  • Socialism

    20 30.77%
  • Justice

    19 29.23%
  • Unjustice

    14 21.54%
  • Good

    9 13.85%
  • Evil

    10 15.38%
  • Prosperity

    7 10.77%
  • Other

    18 27.69%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Social justice

  1. #111
    Educator HumanBeing's Avatar
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Hi

    I was thinking about "social justice" and wondered what it means to you when you hear the term. Please, explain.
    To me means mob rule, much like democratic justice but less formalized.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc
    Well then, sign me up for Marxism!!
    Oh gawd. Read the quote again and consider the meaning more carefully. You've been arguing in favor of democracy, Marx just wanted to use it as a road to get to his final destination, much like other would-be dictators.

  2. #112
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    Well then, sign me up for Marxism!!

    i dont think you really understand, what democracy is evil , and comes out of it.

    but sure!.......your rights extend to being a marxist.

    by the way, here is a few more quotes.

    democracy is the most vile form of government-- james madison

    [D]emocracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy, such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man's life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will, and the execrable cruelty of one or a very few. -- john adams

    Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. -- john adams

    [D]emocracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their deaths. --james madison

    The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty. --fissher ames

    We are now forming a republican government. Ideal liberty is neither found in despotism or the extremes of democracy, but in moderate governments. --alexander hamilton

    [In a democracy] a common passion or interest will, in almost every case , be felt by a majority of the whole; a communication and concert results from the form of government itself; and there is nothing to check the inducements to sacrifice the weaker party or an obnoxious individual.--james madison


    Democracy, whether it is direct or representative is a failure. Always has been and always will be, for one simple reason...it is unrestrained.
    What the majority decides today becomes law tomorrow...until the next majority takes it away or amends it the day after. Legislations are driven by emotions rather than logic and he who controls the information flow (government education and mainstream media), controls the emotions. In a democracy the emotionally charged citizens will demand “justice” by punishing the criminal, which is fair, but then take it a step further by punishing the freedom (through legislation) that the criminal abused to commit the crime.

    As Benedict LaRosa wrote in Democracy or Republic, Which is it? You punish the abuser of the freedom, not the freedom itself.

    There are no rights in a democracy, only privileges. Privileges that can be taken away by 51% of the eligible voters in a direct democracy or 51% of the elected politicians in a representative democracy. In our case here in New Zealand, 62 of the 122 parliamentarians are all that is required for Bills to pass into law.

    When the citizens demand a Binding Referendum, they are in fact asking the government to grant them the privilege of voting directly on various issues. This is direct democracy. The very first democracy was the Athenian direct democracy which failed miserably and never tried again for thousands of years! Many argue that direct democracy would be much more efficient with modern technology, but that simply ignores the absurd notion that the majority of one select group, can collectively impose their private law on those who disagree. Nothing is binding in a democracy because there are no rights, only privileges. If the will of the majority wants a binding referendum then it becomes law until the next majority repeals it, in which case it was never binding in the first place. This is the nature of democracy, unrestrained.

    How is it fair that 122 politicians whose votes are influenced by various special interest groups can make their private law public law, forcing 4 ¾ Million kiwis to comply, including every kiwi born after the vote?

    As kiwis we are encouraged to vote in the general election. One day in every 1095 days the citizens exercise their democratic right to vote for who gets to exercise their democratic right to vote for the next 1094 days!

    For the 3 years between elections the citizens complain about lack of representation and the need to be heard. Citizens resort to polls with overwhelming majorities against the Auckland Supercity, against the Anti Smacking Bill and for Binding Referendums...yet the 122 politicians in parliament ignores these polls. Is this not prima facia evidence that the elected representatives are actually representing someone else’s interests?

    Because it is unrestrained, anything goes. Bills are passed all day everyday, eventually so many laws are created that we all become criminals even though our behaviour hasn't changed from one day to the next.

    However when it suits the agenda of control, the politicians will jump to the aid of any grieving victim who is calling for more restrictive laws. No law will return their loved ones but the new restrictive laws will only serve to help the healing of the victim’s families, but also punish the freedom of all those still alive, including the affected families themselves. In the long run, it is self defeating.

    The most common complaint is that whichever party you elect they will often prove to be no different than the last if not worse! The frustration mounts.

    Einstein defines insanity as "doing the same thing over again and expecting different results".

    How often do we have to keep voting until we work out that we are insane for not realising that the system we are obsessed with fixing, is not even broken. It works exactly as it is designed to work.

    Democracy is the illusion of control.

  3. #113
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    There are no rights in a democracy, only privileges. Privileges that can be taken away by 51% of the eligible voters in a direct democracy or 51% of the elected politicians in a representative democracy.
    Where have you been? I thought I was the only person on this entire website who was willing to come out and say that.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/law-an...-bad-ugly.html

  4. #114
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    Where have you been? I thought I was the only person on this entire website who was willing to come out and say that.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/law-an...-bad-ugly.html
    there are not enough people educated on the evils of democracy.

    to find out what our founders really created in america...see this link.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-con...overnment.html

  5. #115
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    there are not enough people educated on the evils of democracy.

    to find out what our founders really created in america...see this link.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-con...overnment.html
    Read it already It's frightening how many people claim to believe in democracy but are willing to turn to undemocratic mechanisms to keep it in place, and yet don't see the hypocrisy of doing so.

  6. #116
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by HumanBeing View Post
    To me means mob rule, much like democratic justice but less formalized.


    Oh gawd. Read the quote again and consider the meaning more carefully. You've been arguing in favor of democracy, Marx just wanted to use it as a road to get to his final destination, much like other would-be dictators.
    First, it was a tongue in cheek reaction. Second, you are confusing Marx with Lenin.

  7. #117
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    [B]there are not enough people educated on the evils of democracy...
    So, how does a completely undemocratic society work? People have no say at all in how they are governed. Who decides conflict resolution? And I really don't care what a bunch of slaveowners and aristocratic men thought in the 1700's. Let's stick to the hear and now, and real life, not theory.

  8. #118
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    Re: Social justice

    To me, the phrase 'social justice' embodies a concept, which in practice would be a system which ensures that no one suffers adverse consequences from elements over which he/she has no control.

    Medusa put it well when she replied 'humanity'.

    A system of social justice, in any society, does not allow children to go hungry/unsheltered/insufficiently clothed/uneducated because their parents are poor/unemployed/lazy/drug addicted, etc.

    A system of social justice does not encourage enormous disparity in wealth where there are impoverished sections of the community.

    A system of social justice does not allow labour exploitation and subsistence wages while the corporate sector is making record profits.

    A system of social justice does not allow the corporate sector to pollute the environment because it is powerful enough to have political clout.

    A system of social justice restricts personal freedoms where their exercise adversely affect the rest of society, and a system of social justice does not allow the wealthy and powerful to dictate the conditions of life to the rest of society.

    And perhaps most significantly, a system of social justice does not allow people, and their dependents, to suffer because of poor life decisions they may have made.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

  9. #119
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    So, how does a completely undemocratic society work? People have no say at all in how they are governed. Who decides conflict resolution? And I really don't care what a bunch of slaveowners and aristocratic men thought in the 1700's. Let's stick to the hear and now, and real life, not theory.
    We've been through this already on another thread. People choose their own governance on an individual basis. Commies choose to follow the rules of their commie friends, socialists go with the socialists, etc. No group needs to limit the actions of another unless a very few basic natural rights are infringed upon. These rights are universal in that they are in the best interests of all the groups regardless of their beliefs.

  10. #120
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    Re: Social justice

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    And perhaps most significantly, a system of social justice does not allow people, and their dependents, to suffer because of poor life decisions they may have made.
    Wow, are you saying the "nanny state" should rule the day?

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