View Poll Results: Is obama an illegitimate president

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Thread: Is obama an illegitimate president?

  1. #121
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    Re: Is obama an illegitimate president?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    How is not a "NBC" despite being born in Hawaii? Don't give me the **** about his father being a subject of the British Crown. Kids are born to one parent that is not a citizen. They've even become President before (Chet Arthur's father was a Irishman who first immigrated to Canada before coming to the US).
    He was illegitimate as well and allowed the rumor to be spread he was born in Canada.

    what was the original intent of the Natural Born Citizen clause. We are blessed with having the framers thoughts recorded for posterity. And we are doubly blessed that these records are few but in concert as to their intent.



    John Jay wrote George Washington saying, "Permit me to hint whether it would not be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of foreigners into the administration of our national government; and to declare expressly that the command in chief of the American army shall not be given to, nor devolve on any but a natural born citizen."



    Alexander Hamilton raises a very profound question as to influence of foreigners in our Presidency. “Nothing was more to be desired than that every practicable obstacle should be opposed to cabal, intrigue, and corruption. These most deadly adversaries of republican government might naturally have been expected to make their approaches from more than one querter, but chiefly from the desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils. How could they better gratify this, than by raising a creature of their own to the chief magistracy of the Union?”



    Clearly the NBC clause was established to prevent foreigners and foreign influence from taking command of America’s armed forces!



    So the question is who is a foreigner? The three most popular dictionaries define a foreigner as one whose allegiance is owed to a foreign country.



    MerriamWebster Dictionary - “a person belonging to or owing allegiance to a foreign country.”



    Oxford English Dictionary – “One who is a subject of another country than that in which he resides. A resident foreign in origin and not naturalized, whose allegiance is thus due to a foreign state.”



    Blacks Law Dictionary - “A person who is not a citizen or subject of the state or country in which mention is made, or any one owing allegiance to a foreign state or sovereign”



    So the Framers only wanted a person to be President if they had no foreign allegiances. This seems to be the same sentiment about 80 years later when Congress was adopting the Civil Rights Act and 14th Amendment.



    “I find no fault with the introductory clause, which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen; but, sir, I may be allowed to say further, that I deny that the Congress of the United States ever had the power or color of power to say that any man born within the jurisdiction of the United States, and not owing a foreign allegiance, is not and shall not be a citizen of the United States.” John A. Bingham, (R-Ohio) US Congressman, Architect of Section 1 of the 14th Amendment, March 9, 1866



    What is so hard to understand, a natural born citizen is one who is born not owing allegiance to any country but the United States of America?
    Natural Born Citizen
    According to Chapter 19, 212 of "Law of Nations", the concept "Natural born citizen" is a twofold criterion meaning that:


    Both parents must be the citizens of, and the birth must take place in the concerned country, assuming that the citizenship inherited by this child and the loyalty are never changed ever after.


    In other words, a natural born citizen means at least a second generation citizen of the country. Vattel's own note on the margin of his book refers to the Roman law: NEMO PLUS JURIS TRANSFERRE POTEST, QUAM IPSE HABET, meaning "No one can give more rights than he himself has" (by Dr. A. Altec). Except for Obama/Soetoro, the Vattel definition had been always applied, the last precedent being the US Senate resolution 511 in 2008 (also here and here) acknowledging Sen. McCain as a natural born citizen.

    Another indication to the meaning of the term may be found in the Supreme Court's definition of "natural born citizen" as "all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens" (Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162, 1875).
    http://www.resonoelusono.com/NaturalBornCitizen.htm
    Last edited by Gawain; 05-14-13 at 04:37 PM.

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    Re: Is obama an illegitimate president?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    The only people I've seen taking Rodman seriously are the ones who love when anybody says something against Obama. Who was that doctor? I can't even remember his name anymore...
    That is true. But Obama isn't anything more than a citizen, like dennis rodman or that random doctor, and in equal rights. However, he should impose more respect. More authority. More dignity. It is one thing to be attacked by another political party, have another political party stage PR cues against the man in power... but a whole different thing when some nobody decides he can show-up the president. The man, Obama, commands no respect and no authority from any member of society. Maybe Chris Christie respects him but that's it.

    It is not healthy for this to be this way. That's it.

  3. #123
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    Re: Is obama an illegitimate president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain View Post
    ]

    Both parents must be the citizens of, and the birth must take place in the concerned country, assuming that the citizenship inherited by this child and the loyalty are never changed ever after.
    So when George Romney ran, that was illegitimate as well? George was born in Mexico. In fact, according to this definition, Mitt also cannot claim to be a Natural Born Citizen, nor can Marco Rubio whose parents were not citizens at the time of his birth.

    According to the law of the United States, Obama is a Natural Born Citizen. According to the law of the United States, he can be President. Just because some guy named Vattel defined it differently in his book, which wasn't even the law of anything, he's valid.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

  4. #124
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    Re: Is obama an illegitimate president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    That is true. But Obama isn't anything more than a citizen, like dennis rodman or that random doctor, and in equal rights. However, he should impose more respect. More authority. More dignity. It is one thing to be attacked by another political party, have another political party stage PR cues against the man in power... but a whole different thing when some nobody decides he can show-up the president. The man, Obama, commands no respect and no authority from any member of society. Maybe Chris Christie respects him but that's it.

    It is not healthy for this to be this way. That's it.
    That is the fault of the people who lack respect, not Obama. Among the right, respecting Obama is political suicide and has been from before he was sworn into office, not based on his person or his actions, but because of what the election of a liberal Democrat represents to the dying GOP at this period of American history. The same would apply to any human being who is not a neo-con eye balls deep in the GOP establsihment.

    The antipathy toward Obama arises from historical trends (such as the Latino vote) which the GOP is mostly helpless to adapt to due to the nature of the monied special interests that rule their ethos and actions as a political party. Like any organism selected for evolutionary destruction, it flails around no matter how hopeless its odds of survival are.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 05-14-13 at 05:11 PM.
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    Re: Is obama an illegitimate president?

    Where's the option for the presidency itself is illegitimate?

  6. #126
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    Re: Is obama an illegitimate president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain View Post
    Nothing can change the fact that his father was a British citizen making him not an NBC and not fit to even run for president.
    Barring a supreme court decision (or a lower court decision which is not overturned) stating otherwise, one does not need to have two parents who are US citizens to be a natural born citizen. By the most common definition of 'natural born citizen', simply being born in the US, you don't even have to have one parent who is a US citizen to be a natural born citizen yourself.
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  7. #127
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    Re: Is obama an illegitimate president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain View Post
    Still impossible.
    Yeah, it's impossible that poor blacks in the projects would vote for Romney.

    You aren't even bothering to look at the areas where Obama got 100% of the vote. Hint: they aren't mixed middle class neighborhoods. They are dirt poor, almost entirely (some actually are 100%) black areas.

    Now, if they WERE mixed middle class neighborhoods, that would be a big sign of fraud.
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    Re: Is obama an illegitimate president?

    If anything we should be praising the wisdom and courage of Barack, to be the rock, staying strong for America amidst the challenges of well financed billionaire foes and corporations that are pitted against him. And now the witchhunt hearings. The courage and strength that this man has to still be standing tall for America is mind blowing and will no doubt be his legacy as he stands guard and fights the good fight for us all day in and day out. He didn't give up when the GOP tried to derail the healthcare town hall meetings, he didn't stay in his ivory tower when he needed to apologize to the common man over a brewsky, he didn't run from the fight, and for that I commend him and know that we are a better nation, a better people, a better community with Barack leading the charge and I don't think history will disagree with me.
    Caitlyn Strong...

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    Re: Is obama an illegitimate president?

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    So when George Romney ran, that was illegitimate as well? George was born in Mexico. In fact, according to this definition, Mitt also cannot claim to be a Natural Born Citizen, nor can Marco Rubio whose parents were not citizens at the time of his birth.

    According to the law of the United States, Obama is a Natural Born Citizen. According to the law of the United States, he can be President. Just because some guy named Vattel defined it differently in his book, which wasn't even the law of anything, he's valid.
    Willard Mitt Romney was born on March 12, 1947, at Harper University Hospital in Detroit, Michigan,
    His father was an American citizen when he was born
    On Rubio you are correct
    He is not an NBC according to US law. Its based on Vattel. Likewise the 14th does not make anyone born here a citizen if you know how to read English.

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    Re: Is obama an illegitimate president?

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    That is the fault of the people who lack respect, not Obama. Among the right, respecting Obama is political suicide and has been from before he was sworn into office, not based on his person or his actions, but because of what the election of a liberal Democrat represents to the dying GOP at this period of American history. The same would apply to any human being who is not a neo-con eye balls deep in the GOP establsihment.

    The antipathy toward Obama arises from historical trends (such as the Latino vote) which the GOP is mostly helpless to adapt to due to the nature of the monied special interests that rule their ethos and actions as a political party. Like any organism selected for evolutionary destruction, it flails around no matter how hopeless its odds of survival are.

    What to respect. The guy belongs in jail

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