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Nationalizing the Education System

Nationalize Schools?

  • Yes

    Votes: 14 18.9%
  • No

    Votes: 53 71.6%
  • Other

    Votes: 7 9.5%

  • Total voters
    74
My iPhone is difficult to type with. I began editing right after I posted. Your post exudes what is wrong. All complaint and zero specific knowledgeable solutions. Now try reading the edit for understanding and then go to your state's web-site for education. Illinois is isbe.net
See what today's educators must deal with. I'm glad I started in 1976. And we haven't touched on how today's educators are being screwed on future pensions due to political malfeasance.

Pensions, public or otherwise, are economic dinosaurs, and likewise, should be extinct.
 
More choice. If you don't like a given school, say because classroom sizes are inadequate or you believe the teachers are unqualified, you simply pull your kid out of that school and put them in a better one.
Nothing is stopping you from doing that right now.


Competitive pressure would mean that schools would fight with each other to be the best... all to society's benefit.
That's bull. Schools would fight each other to be the most profitable, however that can be accomplished.
 
It all depends on what you mean and since the OP was vague, I couldn't really answer. While I think that education ought to be funded locally, I think the curriculum ought to be set nationally so that every single school everywhere is learning the same things at the same time. This has the effect of bypassing local school board stupidity, getting rid of the power over textbook production for large states like California and Texas and making it possible to walk out of one classroom in one state and into another classroom in another state and not be a year ahead or a year behind. We should have national educational standards designed by experts in each given field and nobody ought to be able to opt out.
 
I know that seeing as the Federal Government is not given the power to meddle with education, and that allows the state to assume that power, the Constitution though does state that the Federal Government has the power to do things that will provide for the general welfare. Would you support such a measure to nationalize schools? Feel free to explain your vote!

Government intervention has created enough general welfare. States know better than the government what their students need to succeed academically.
 
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Nationalization? No.

Complete privatization? No.

Something akin to the concept of what we have now, but reformed.
 
No, we should not move to a national educational system. Not entirely, at least.

There should be some basic national standards, but they should be general standards, standards which do not change every 10 years. It should be up to the states to refine those general standards and put them into working concepts. Once they are put into working concepts, it should be on the local school districts to best implement those concepts, in a manner which is appropriate for the area of the country they live and the student population they serve.
 
No, we should not move to a national educational system. Not entirely, at least.

There should be some basic national standards, but they should be general standards, standards which do not change every 10 years. It should be up to the states to refine those general standards and put them into working concepts. Once they are put into working concepts, it should be on the local school districts to best implement those concepts, in a manner which is appropriate for the area of the country they live and the student population they serve.
I pretty much agree with this. This could be done with cutting the size of the DoE to 1/10 what it is currently, also.
 
Pensions, public or otherwise, are economic dinosaurs, and likewise, should be extinct.

Public TRS pensions have been raided for at least 4 decades, destroying the premise of a workable 401K. Teacher money has been deferred for a career. Who should pay it back with interest? Teachers in states like Illinois get no social security. Just as the term gun-haters is loosely thrown around here at DP, so should the word teacher-haters.
 
No, we should not move to a national educational system. Not entirely, at least.

There should be some basic national standards, but they should be general standards, standards which do not change every 10 years. It should be up to the states to refine those general standards and put them into working concepts. Once they are put into working concepts, it should be on the local school districts to best implement those concepts, in a manner which is appropriate for the area of the country they live and the student population they serve.

When I began teaching in 1976, I was told by veteran teachers that the state would come along every 5 years and reinvent the wheel. This continues to happen to this day. If any of you have children, they will most likely graduate from high school in 2018 or after with an electronic portfolio, akin to a fancy IEP/504 for every student. If you know anything of education, you know what a nightmare this will be. I'm glad I'm retired but I'm also glad to still be teaching about one semester a year.
 
And we haven't touched on how today's educators are being screwed on future pensions due to political malfeasance.

And I don't want to because the point is not the teachers; the point is the quality of education. It's about the underperformance of the students in comparison to students in other countries.

Less federal "involvement" is needed, not more.
 
How would privatisation solve those issues? Classrooms would be larger for more profit, teacher qualification requirements could go down, to maximise profit, and the union could still be a pain in the arse.

No, there would be many different systems in place, because there would be many customers that don't want large classrooms for their kids. There would be schools for everyone because companies would the business from as many customers has they can get.

The profit motive system would make private schools VERY much better if there wasn't a government school system in place
 
Ah yes because when only an elite few are allowed to be educated nothing bad ever happens.

For more see the effects of favouritism in education in regards to post colonial countries.

Where only one tribal group or social elites get education... tends to turn out quite badly.

I don't think he ever said that would be the case. What's wrong with a school voucher being issued to every child's parents to use at any accredited school?
 
Golly Gee Willickers, Baby Boomers voted themselves awesome benefits but then also voted not to delay gratification in order to be able to afford them? Color me astonished!

Teachers did not vote themselves awesome benefits. No one did. Get educated and then prove how awesome they are. Specific is terrific.
On the other hand, admins do have awesome benefits but if you knew a very small fraction of the heavy burdens they carry with our students et al. I've seen them listen to a crying teacher most of the night who just lost a child. Yet they're back the next day bound by the laws of confidentiality.
Going to college and racking up debt
Thankfully, there are enough students, parents, and BOEs who give us the intrinsic reward we need and I need to stay unretired.

And Sergio Garcia is a whiny punk.
 
When I began teaching in 1976, I was told by veteran teachers that the state would come along every 5 years and reinvent the wheel. This continues to happen to this day. If any of you have children, they will most likely graduate from high school in 2018 or after with an electronic portfolio, akin to a fancy IEP/504 for every student. If you know anything of education, you know what a nightmare this will be. I'm glad I'm retired but I'm also glad to still be teaching about one semester a year.
I completely believe this. I also have my own theory as to why it happens.

Politicians have a need to put their stamp on everything, so that they can demonstrate how wonderful they are to the voters. Whether the existing program is a good one or not, doesn't matter. People don't get elected for being a care-taker of a good program, they get elected for "changing the broken system". This happens at every level... school board, city, county, state, and national.

I believe that any true comprehensive reform cannot be fully and effectively analyzed for approximately a generation. But, because we keep changing course every few years, we never find out what really works and what does not. We might have actually had a fantastic program in place at one point, but we'll never know.
 
I know that seeing as the Federal Government is not given the power to meddle with education, and that allows the state to assume that power, the Constitution though does state that the Federal Government has the power to do things that will provide for the general welfare. Would you support such a measure to nationalize schools? Feel free to explain your vote!

The US Postal Service has given me little confidence in the federal government running any important service related agency, especially one that operates essentially as a monopoly. Add TSA. I could list others.

I'd be okay with the federal government running SOME schools but only as an option parents coud choose instead. Then if their is any power to choose offered parents, the same public school system runs all the schools from which they can choose. IMHO part of the disaster of the public school system is institutionalizing no choice for parents unless they're wealthy enough to afford private school tuition. I think the best solution would be offer a variety of options for families to choose. The federal government can offer their options along with the regular public school and private schools. All schools will try their hardest to be the best because they will want as many families as possible to pick them instead of other schools. Each parent gets a 100% of cost tax credit reimbursing them the cost of tuition.
 
I don't think he ever said that would be the case. What's wrong with a school voucher being issued to every child's parents to use at any accredited school?

Even RED state Supreme Courts are ruling vouchers unconstitutional.
I think we all know where the politics of vouchers is intended to go.

All 50 states have incredibly different education systems.
The idea of combining them under NCLB in 2001 by Bush and Kennedy was ludicrous.

As I finish this semester over 1,000 miles from my pension state, I am
reminded of my undergraduate college motto:
"And Gladly Would He Learn And Gladly Teach"
I learned this was "Old English" from Chaucer when my students
Gave me a plaque with this imprinted on the plaque when I left for another
High school in another state in 1990.

We must learn to channel the inner thoughts of our students away from averaging 23,000 texts a month and it will take far more than a Village.
 
Even RED state Supreme Courts are ruling vouchers unconstitutional.
I think we all know where the politics of vouchers is intended to go.

All 50 states have incredibly different education systems.
The idea of combining them under NCLB in 2001 by Bush and Kennedy was ludicrous.

As I finish this semester over 1,000 miles from my pension state, I am
reminded of my undergraduate college motto:
"And Gladly Would He Learn And Gladly Teach"
I learned this was "Old English" from Chaucer when my students
Gave me a plaque with this imprinted on the plaque when I left for another
High school in another state in 1990.

We must learn to channel the inner thoughts of our students away from averaging 23,000 texts a month and it will take far more than a Village.

1) How is it unconstitutional?

2) What is your problem with it?

Why do you want only rich kids to be able to go to high quality schools? If someone is in a ****ty public school district and isn't rich, they're just ****ed. Only rich people can afford to pull their kids out and put them into private school.

If they got a voucher, schools could compete, and the higher quality schools would do better. As of now there is zero incentive, and it shows in the piss poor quality of our public education system. Pardon me, but I don't like the rich having a massive advantage over others. Maybe that's your thing.
 
And I don't want to because the point is not the teachers; the point is the quality of education. It's about the underperformance of the students in comparison to students in other countries.

Less federal "involvement" is needed, not more.

It cannot be proven that less "federal involvement" is needed when the fact is that the countries we are behind have far more federal involvement and are very often accused of being wicked socialist.

We could start with parents not texting their kids in class when I'm trying to teach them. 23,000 texts a month? Yet every issue turns into bash the Feds. What a joke this country's turned into.
 
And I don't want to because the point is not the teachers; the point is the quality of education. It's about the underperformance of the students in comparison to students in other countries.

Less federal "involvement" is needed, not more.
Broken homes--will these circles ever be unbroken--parents should be required to attend albumin of BOE meeting. Though I offered extra credit, I still only got 16 % of parents on conference day which is pathetic for Chrmistry.

Yet I had an awesome single mom who should also get a Father's day card for all she does.
 
It cannot be proven that less "federal involvement" is needed when the fact is that the countries we are behind have far more federal involvement and are very often accused of being wicked socialist.

We could start with parents not texting their kids in class when I'm trying to teach them. 23,000 texts a month? Yet every issue turns into bash the Feds. What a joke this country's turned into.
The joke may be on you if you are trying to tie in socialism with the ability to read, write, and do math.
 
1) How is it unconstitutional?

2) What is your problem with it?

Why do you want only rich kids to be able to go to high quality schools? If someone is in a ****ty public school district and isn't rich, they're just ****ed. Only rich people can afford to pull their kids out and put them into private school.

If they got a voucher, schools could compete, and the higher quality schools would do better. As of now there is zero incentive, and it shows in the piss poor quality of our public education system. Pardon me, but I don't like the rich having a massive advantage over others. Maybe that's your thing.

1) Ask the RED state Supreme Courts.
2) What is your problem accusing me of favoring rich kids?
You can'tor find this in text or between the lines.
My whole career has been with poor kids.
You know not of what you speak. Just empty generalizations to divide from the right.
3) All I hear from you is angry Rand Paul/Rush Limbaugh talking points.
Both have marginalized themselves
 
Broken homes--will these circles ever be unbroken--parents should be required to attend albumin of BOE meeting. Though I offered extra credit, I still only got 16 % of parents on conference day which is pathetic for Chrmistry.

Yet I had an awesome single mom who should also get a Father's day card for all she does.

I agree with you wholeheartedly about parental involvement. As I've said in other posts, I think both Candidates McCain and Obama had strong ideas for reforming education, and now-President Obama is correct: Education begins at home.

BTW, I was a single parent and very often had to commute out of town for my job, but I always attended school activities, knew the teachers, and participated in report-card stuffing, etc. It's not easy, but if you value your children's education, you have to try.
 
1) Ask the RED state Supreme Courts.
2) What is your problem accusing me of favoring rich kids?
You can'tor find this in text or between the lines.
My whole career has been with poor kids.
You know not of what you speak. Just empty generalizations to divide from the right.
3) All I hear from you is angry Rand Paul/Rush Limbaugh talking points.
Both have marginalized themselves

1) So you refuse to provide citation for your claims? Is that what you teach your kids? I'm glad my teachers were pretty competent.

2) You're also refusing to explain what your problem with vouchers is? You can't even give a few reasons? Now that I know you're a teacher your opposition is making a LOT more sense. You don't want competition. If it were up to me I wouldn't want my government secured job to be threatened by people who tried either.

3) I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm expressing my views, and REASONS behind them, you're just complaining.
 
The US Postal Service has given me little confidence in the federal government running any important service related agency, especially one that operates essentially as a monopoly. Add TSA. I could list others.

I'd be okay with the federal government running SOME schools but only as an option parents coud choose instead. Then if their is any power to choose offered parents, the same public school system runs all the schools from which they can choose. IMHO part of the disaster of the public school system is institutionalizing no choice for parents unless they're wealthy enough to afford private school tuition. I think the best solution would be offer a variety of options for families to choose. The federal government can offer their options along with the regular public school and private schools. All schools will try their hardest to be the best because they will want as many families as possible to pick them instead of other schools. Each parent gets a 100% of cost tax credit reimbursing them the cost of tuition.

The Postal Service has been sabotaged by the Republicans for 7 years. Even honest Repubs have admitted this.
 
1) So you refuse to provide citation for your claims? Is that what you teach your kids? I'm glad my teachers were pretty competent.

2) You're also refusing to explain what your problem with vouchers is? You can't even give a few reasons? Now that I know you're a teacher your opposition is making a LOT more sense. You don't want competition. If it were up to me I wouldn't want my government secured job to be threatened by people who tried either.

3) I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm expressing my views, and REASONS behind them, you're just complaining.

You started the hating and complaining on public schools
but you can'tor take the rebound.
Though retired and still teaching, you haven't a clue in regards
to government protected jobs when the laws have changed dramatically.
Even righties on here don't play the give me a link game.
My high school kids would have you for lunch.
 
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