View Poll Results: Nationalize Schools?

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  • Yes

    16 16.84%
  • No

    70 73.68%
  • Other

    9 9.47%
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Thread: Nationalizing the Education System

  1. #541
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Actually, that opinion is a couple of decades out of date. We do, in fact, teach critical thinking skills. At one time "self esteem" was the number one priority, but no longer.
    No, now they're just teaching kids how to past tests *AND* how to feel good about themselves.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #542
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Your opinion is irrelevant next to the actual language of the US Constitution which clearly says that Congress has the power to provide for the general welfare.
    anyone else find it entertaining that Haymarket thinks that his preferred interpretation is the what the Constitution "clearly says", while the people who wrote the Constitution are just dismissable opinions?

  3. #543
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    No, now they're just teaching kids how to past tests *AND* how to feel good about themselves.
    There is a huge incentive for teaching kids how to pass tests, that's true, and will be as long as the stupid bureaucrats insist on using a standardized test as the sole method to evaluate schools and teachers.

    Check out the state standards for your state, however, and see if it doesn't include a lot of critical thinking.
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  4. #544
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    There is a huge incentive for teaching kids how to pass tests, that's true, and will be as long as the stupid bureaucrats insist on using a standardized test as the sole method to evaluate schools and teachers.
    I'm not talking about teaching them to pass tests in general, but how to pass the state-specific tests. My kids are both spending the last *3* entire weeks of school reviewing for their finals, they spent nearly a month preparing for the state tests. That's time they didn't learn anything new. I'm opposed to that.

    Check out the state standards for your state, however, and see if it doesn't include a lot of critical thinking.
    No, not really it doesn't.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  5. #545
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    anyone else find it entertaining that Haymarket thinks that his preferred interpretation is the what the Constitution "clearly says", while the people who wrote the Constitution are just dismissable opinions?
    The Constitution says what it says. If some individual among the 55 who participated in its writing holds an opinion - that is fine. It changes nothing of the actual words of the Constitution.

    btw - you and some others who put such great store in these individual opinions as shown in the Federalist Papers would do well to actually read them. For example, Hamilton clearly said that each legislature should be free to interpret the meaning of what GENERAL WELFARE actually was to them.

    Article 1, Section 8, Clause 1: Alexander Hamilton, Report on Manufactures

    It is therefore of necessity left to the discretion of the National Legislature, to pronounce, upon the objects, which concern the general Welfare, and for which under that description, an appropriation of money is requisite and proper. And there seems to be no room for a doubt that whatever concerns the general Interests of learning of Agriculture of Manufactures and of Commerce are within the sphere of the national Councils as far as regards an application of Money.
    the wiki article on the topic contains an interesting observation about the broader Hamiltonian view of general welfare

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_welfare_clause

    While Hamilton's view prevailed during the administrations of Presidents Washington and Adams, historians argue that his view of the General Welfare Clause was repudiated in the election of 1800, and helped establish the primacy of the Democratic-Republican Party for the subsequent 24 years
    So the broader view could indeed be said to the the original view that was exercised in our first two administrations of Washington and Adams - both founders.

    So the sainted founder agrees with me. If that matters as to the meaning of the Constitution, that is for the Court to decide.
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-21-13 at 08:00 AM.
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