View Poll Results: Nationalize Schools?

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Thread: Nationalizing the Education System

  1. #521
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    To borrow on credit means to take and use something (in this case money) under an agreement to pay it back later. I think it's safe to say that in giving congress the power to borrow money on the credit of the united states this includes the power to pay the money back.
    You of all people using an implication to interpret the Constitution?!? Now THAT'S funny!


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I disagree. Each of the powers you mention are specifically aimed at the general welfare of the united states.
    Well, there's the rub, isn't it? What you might call "general welfare" I would call control of the economy. As many of your modern day peers believe, we don't need a national money supply or any of the other stuff associated with it. In fact, didn't we manage without national money, except on a very limited basis, for a good part of the first century? I could be wrong, I've never read about the history of money in America, but I know there were a lot of different private notes running around in the 1800's.
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  2. #522
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Perhaps you recall that before 1862 there was zero Federal involvement and that was just allocating lands for colleges. Then Federal involvement increased dramatically after WWII.

    If the Federal Government decides that something is for the General Welfare of the country, what isn't possible?
    Your point being, what? That you think Congress will decide one day it should impose mandatory education on everyone until they have a Ph.D.?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Practically any abuse of federal government power can be justified by its supporters by citing that [general welfare] clause.
    It's not up to the "Federal Government" - aka Congress - to decide that. The USSC has the final say and has ruled many laws unconstitutional.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-20-13 at 07:10 PM.
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  3. #523
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Again with the strawman as I never said I supported anything but limited government.
    limited government then does not include education or housing and many other things the government uses to justify their actions by using the 2 words"general welfare.


    2 over used expressions..........strawman, and ...the bottom line is!

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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Facts are a dime a dozen. Any fact you want to know can be had at the push of a button. What students need to learn is how to evaluate and apply those facts, as well as how to use them to support opinions.
    Which is part of the necessary curriculum. Unfortunately, today we're only teaching kids how to feel good about themselves, not how to think critically.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    limited government then does not include education or housing and many other things the government uses to justify their actions by using the 2 words"general welfare.


    2 over used expressions..........strawman, and ...the bottom line is!
    If you do not like being pointed out for your strawmen - then quit using them.

    I support limited government. You claim you do also. What is the problem?
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Your point being, what? That you think Congress will decide one day it should impose mandatory education on everyone until they have a Ph.D.?

    It's not up to the "Federal Government" - aka Congress - to decide that. The USSC has the final say and has ruled many laws unconstitutional.
    *sigh*, the point being that the Federal government is more than just Congress and even Executive Branch departments are given wide latitude by most laws to interpret laws as they see fit. This is probably where move abuse is created than just the passing of laws. You specifically mentioned non-adults in an earlier post. You made the decision to restrict your point to that group and I was challenging why it would only apply to non-adults.

    More law is implemented by the Executive branch than most people realize. If the Federal Government wants to justify anything as being governed by the general welfare clause, no one, not even the SC is likely to stop them. Funny how even Obamacare was not justified by the General welfare clause.

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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Your point being, what? That you think Congress will decide one day it should impose mandatory education on everyone until they have a Ph.D.?

    It's not up to the "Federal Government" - aka Congress - to decide that. The USSC has the final say and has ruled many laws unconstitutional.
    The USSC is the federal government. That's why the federal government can't validate its own laws as constitutional and be the final arbiter of that decision. The states (the owners of the federal government) are the ultimate decision makers of what is and isn't constitutional.

  8. #528
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    Which is part of the necessary curriculum. Unfortunately, today we're only teaching kids how to feel good about themselves, not how to think critically.
    Actually, that opinion is a couple of decades out of date. We do, in fact, teach critical thinking skills. At one time "self esteem" was the number one priority, but no longer.
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  9. #529
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Your point being, what? That you think Congress will decide one day it should impose mandatory education on everyone until they have a Ph.D.?

    It's not up to the "Federal Government" - aka Congress - to decide that. The USSC has the final say and has ruled many laws unconstitutional.

    That is correct. the balance of powers is still working to a degree. Still, there are few in Congress who take the tenth amendment seriously, and a lot more who think that the general welfare clause covers everything.

    Or, maybe they just think that the constitution is something to be circumvented in a never ceasing search for more power.
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  10. #530
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You of all people using an implication to interpret the Constitution?!? Now THAT'S funny!

    Well, there's the rub, isn't it? What you might call "general welfare" I would call control of the economy. As many of your modern day peers believe, we don't need a national money supply or any of the other stuff associated with it. In fact, didn't we manage without national money, except on a very limited basis, for a good part of the first century? I could be wrong, I've never read about the history of money in America, but I know there were a lot of different private notes running around in the 1800's.
    I'm not sure what you're getting at actually. I'm not following your point about private notes.

    Congress may tax, and congress may spend money on the exercise of the other powers listed in Art I, section 8. States gave congress these powers because they promoted the general welfare, which was the whole reason for establishing the constitution in the first place. The restrictions placed upon congress' power to tax clearly are there to limit its spending to only its other legitimate powers, all of which revolve around common defense and promotion of the general welfare.

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