View Poll Results: Nationalize Schools?

Voters
95. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    16 16.84%
  • No

    70 73.68%
  • Other

    9 9.47%
Page 42 of 55 FirstFirst ... 32404142434452 ... LastLast
Results 411 to 420 of 545

Thread: Nationalizing the Education System

  1. #411
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    01-27-15 @ 11:37 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,247

    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I didn't put any words in your mouth. You presented an argument which dictated a certain rule be followed in order to support your argument. All I did was take that same rule and apply it to another area of the Constitution. I mean, if the rule should be applied to one part then it should be applied to all parts. Otherwise, it's just crap.
    I wasn't putting forth a general rule. I was explaining my interpretation of the text in question.

  2. #412
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    01-27-15 @ 11:37 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,247

    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    My interpretation is simple:

    "... to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to ... provide for the ... general Welfare of the United States;" Now, what "provide for the ... general Welfare of the United States" means might be open to interpretation but little else is.
    I'm not sure of your answer here. Are you saying that congress has the power to collect taxes AND also has the power to provide for the general welfare? (That would be TWO powers)

    Or are you saying that congress has the power to collect taxes in order to provide for the general welfare? (That would be one power)

  3. #413
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I wasn't putting forth a general rule. I was explaining my interpretation of the text in question.
    If you "method of interpretation" only applies to the parts you want then it isn't an objective means of interpretation and should be considered crap.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  4. #414
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I'm not sure of your answer here. Are you saying that congress has the power to collect taxes AND also has the power to provide for the general welfare? (That would be TWO powers)

    Or are you saying that congress has the power to collect taxes in order to provide for the general welfare? (That would be one power)
    The latter - but it's not just one power, exactly, since it also includes other "pay" and "provide" objects besides "general welfare" toward which taxes et al could be used. Both "pay the Debts" and "provide for the common Defense" are included as objects, too.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-19-13 at 02:17 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  5. #415
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    01-27-15 @ 11:37 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,247

    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The latter - but it's not just one power, exactly, since it also includes other "pay" and "provide" objects besides "general welfare" toward which taxes et al could be used. Both "pay the Debts" and "provide for the common Defense" are included as objects, too.
    So the power being granted is the power to tax.

  6. #416
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    01-27-15 @ 11:37 AM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    8,247

    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    If you "method of interpretation" only applies to the parts you want then it isn't an objective means of interpretation and should be considered crap.
    I am not proposing a method of interpretation. I am simply explaining my understanding of the passage under discussion.

  7. #417
    Student
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    08-22-16 @ 11:08 PM
    Gender
    Posts
    210

    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    My interpretation is simple:

    "... to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to ... provide for the ... general Welfare of the United States;" Now, what "provide for the ... general Welfare of the United States" means might be open to interpretation but little else is.
    I would agree with your interpretation of this portion, as long as it's understood that the constitution clarifies the common defense and general welfare in the enumerated powers listed later on in the constitution. Especially when you look at the founders' statements later on that spelled out the fact that it makes little sense to have a constitution giving the federal government power to do anything they want under the guise of "promoting the general welfare"

  8. #418
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    So the power being granted is the power to tax.
    The power to tax et al to:

    1. pay the debt
    2. provide for the common Defense
    3. provide for the general welfare
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #419
    Sage
    MoSurveyor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Last Seen
    04-13-17 @ 04:36 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,985

    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by phishfi View Post
    I would agree with your interpretation of this portion, as long as it's understood that the constitution clarifies the common defense and general welfare in the enumerated powers listed later on in the constitution. Especially when you look at the founders' statements later on that spelled out the fact that it makes little sense to have a constitution giving the federal government power to do anything they want under the guise of "promoting the general welfare"
    I do not look at the "founders' statements later on". Contracts are not enforced by the intent of one of the parties involved. Apparently you've never read the fine print that's been added by law to various financial documents to clearly spell this out to the layman. What you see is what you get and that's all you get.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #420
    Student
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    08-22-16 @ 11:08 PM
    Gender
    Posts
    210

    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I do not look at the "founders' statements later on". Contracts are not enforced by the intent of one of the parties involved. Apparently you've never read the fine print that's been added by law to various financial documents to clearly spell this out to the layman. What you see is what you get and that's all you get.
    Not when the earliest rulings of the supreme court specifically stated that the constitution must be looked at in the manner in which its creators intended. That was even upheld as recently as 2008

Page 42 of 55 FirstFirst ... 32404142434452 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •