View Poll Results: Nationalize Schools?

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  • Yes

    16 16.84%
  • No

    70 73.68%
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    9 9.47%
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Thread: Nationalizing the Education System

  1. #391
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I wasn't exactly challenging you to describe the impact of Peggy Eaton.
    What you did was fundamentally intellectually dishonest in addition to being outright false. FDR never had a program to confiscate and destroy all the excess or extra or surplus food in the USA. Never happened.

    FDR's solution was to round up all the 'excess' food and destroy it
    Then when I failed to recognize your ideologically skewed hyperbole, you dishonestly railed against me for not knowing a fact of history which was a lie in the first place. And every time you bring this up - which in and of itself is a sign of some terribly strange obsession you have with proving me wrong - I have pointed this out.
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-19-13 at 10:41 AM.
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  2. #392
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post


    Please.
    So a person had an opinion two centuries ago. So what?
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  3. #393
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The clause to which you refer does not grant any power. The power being granted is the power to tax.

    The power to tax does not equate to the power to operate schools.
    In your opinion which is not supported by a reading of the clause itself.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In your opinion which is not supported by a reading of the clause itself.
    Then why would they have written the rest if the constitution at all? And why would all of the founders make it clear that the powers are limited to the enumerated list of powers?

    For that matters, why would the states even create their own governments if the federal government could control everything in the name of "general welfare"? And why wouldn't income tax have been a defensible program without a constitutional amendment?

  5. #395
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    In your opinion which is not supported by a reading of the clause itself.
    The only way your opinion would be supported is if you were to interpret the text as something like, "congress has the power to lay and collect taxes, and congress has the power to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the united states."

    My interpretation is something like, "congress has the power to lay and collect taxes in order to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the united states."

    So is it your opinion that this clause grants one power or multiple powers?

  6. #396
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by phishfi View Post
    Then why would they have written the rest if the constitution at all? And why would all of the founders make it clear that the powers are limited to the enumerated list of powers?

    For that matters, why would the states even create their own governments if the federal government could control everything in the name of "general welfare"? And why wouldn't income tax have been a defensible program without a constitutional amendment?
    The put in what they put in. That is simple reality. If you do not like what they included - your problem is with the Constitution and not with me.
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  7. #397
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The only way your opinion would be supported is if you were to interpret the text as something like, "congress has the power to lay and collect taxes, and congress has the power to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the united states."

    My interpretation is something like, "congress has the power to lay and collect taxes in order to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the united states."

    So is it your opinion that this clause grants one power or multiple powers?
    So by your interpretation is Congress levied taxes to pay for national education that would be legal in your opinion?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So by your interpretation is Congress levied taxes to pay for national education that would be legal in your opinion?
    No, as I just explained, that particlular language we are discussing ONLY gives congress the power to collect taxes. It grants no other power. The other powers of congress are listed in following clauses.

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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The put in what they put in. That is simple reality. If you do not like what they included - your problem is with the Constitution and not with me.
    My problem with you is your gross misinterpretation of our country's founding document, even after countless pieces of evidence from the people who wrote the document themselves. Even the supreme court has ruled that the constitution is to be read and interpreted as it would have been interpreted at it's creation. So when we look at this, we have to look at it in the scope of the founders' intent. The founders' intent was to create a limited set of duties that the states all agreed on to be conducted for them, and for everything else to be handled by each individual state... not for any duties the public wants to be lumped into "general welfare" and handled by the federal government.

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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The only way your opinion would be supported is if you were to interpret the text as something like, "congress has the power to lay and collect taxes, and congress has the power to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the united states."

    My interpretation is something like, "congress has the power to lay and collect taxes in order to provide for the common defense and general welfare of the united states."

    So is it your opinion that this clause grants one power or multiple powers?
    If you turn your same reasoning to the 2nd Amendment then gun owners should have to belong to a "well regulated militia", which is shear poppycock. I mean, according to you - if the founders meant otherwise they would have used "and" in stead of a comma.
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