View Poll Results: Nationalize Schools?

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    16 16.84%
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    70 73.68%
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Thread: Nationalizing the Education System

  1. #361
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Nah, not the suicide type.
    Hey, you brought it up.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  2. #362
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I can also fight against what is wrong. Note here that "fight against" does not necessarily mean violence.
    By all means, go for it. Nobody said you had to like it and nobody said that, if there are legal methods for trying to change things, you shouldn't engage in those. I only said that, while something is the law of the land, you need to accept it and follow it or deal with the consequences thereof.

    The biggest and most telling argument against Nationalizing education is the abuses in the system. Abuses that already exist from the Fed sticking it's nose in anyway. Our schools have quit educating the young, they focus on brain washing them into liberal ideals.
    And you don't think that state and local governments aren't just as abusive? If you're going to have a problem, and honestly, you will always have a problem, I'd rather have a consistent problem that can be identified and dealt with, rather than a million different problems.

    In Oklahoma, 65% of schools in the OKC/Norman metropolitan area failed to meet standards for math, English and sciences. The majority of high school seniors in Oklahoma could not find Louisiana on a map. However, almost all students could give brief oral history of Martin Luther King, jr. They could also explain to you that global warming is real and caused by automobile emission. This is just a couple of quick items, not a full list. Funny, they can tell you all about liberal things that do nothing to prepare them for the job market but cannot muster skills necessary to enter the job market.
    Which is why we need national standards so that they'd all be required to understand all of the important subjects. I'm sure that down the road, you've got kids learning all about Jesus and creationism in the classroom and a state over, they're learning how to feel good about themselves and apply for welfare.

    A friend of mine actually had her 13 year old daughter ask her if it was ok not to be homosexual. Apparently the homosexual tolerance education in her local school had gotten to the point that normal students were made to feel ashamed of being normal. Strange, that school is also one of the worse academically performing ones in the city.
    That's about as idiotic as asking if it's okay not to be black. Yes, some of these programs can go too far, but so can parents who teach their kids to hate others.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #363
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Yep, Apparently actually having students learn to read and write is bad as long as we teach them about MLK. A few months back there was even a fuss about how a Kindergarten student was berated by a teacher because she colored MLK purple instead of black/brown.

    I have no problem with teaching about MLK when they have progressed through history to the point that the Civil rights struggle and that era is being taught. But really, teaching students that, when you haven't even really begun to teach them the three R's, that is political agenda, not education.
    And how do you know it came from the school at all? No way in hell the parents could have pushed that part, is there? Do you also imagine that a child in public school who can recite certain Bible verses also learned that at school? LOL!
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  4. #364
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    That's about as idiotic as asking if it's okay not to be black. Yes, some of these programs can go too far, but so can parents who teach their kids to hate others.
    Oh, I'd say parents like that go a lot further and are a lot worse. With them the child usually doesn't have the option to question.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  5. #365
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by phishfi View Post
    You're behind comprehending this, apparently. I gave you a specific case, the fugitive slave act, where states (almost every state in the north) nullified a federal law, and you refuse to see it. I'm saying that the nullification by the good people in the north, was so effective at nullifying federal law that it made the confederacy secede.

    How isn't that one specific case when the states threw out a giving by the supreme court and showed their sovereignty absolutely?
    You gave us YOUR interpretation of an event in history and the effort of some states to grandstand. All you gave us was you own spin on your own beliefs.

    There was no successful nullification which overrode a SC decision. From the wikipedia article on constititional nullification

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullifi..._Constitution)

    Between 1798 and the beginning of the Civil War in 1861, several states threatened or attempted nullification of various federal laws, including the Supreme Court of Wisconsin's ruling in 1854 that the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 was unconstitutional. None of these efforts were legally upheld.
    The key word in the first sentence being ATTEMPTED.

    The key words in the second sentence are the entire things NONE OF THESE EFFORTS WERE LEGALLY UPHELD.

    Please note what I did there. First, I provided a link to the verifiable evidence. Secondly, I quoted the actual evidence. That is how it is done.

    Again, you may not want to muddy the waters with silly stories of don quixotic impotence. It simply proves my point and destroys yours.
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-18-13 at 05:34 PM.
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  6. #366
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Thus far (off the top of my head) you were unaware until educated that FDR's solution to hunger in America was to destroy large amounts of food, that the progressive era claimed that competition was "wasteful", and you didn't know who was sovereign in the American system of government.
    every time you attempt to bring up this red herring I have told you the same thing: you presented this event in history in such a biased and skewed way that it was unrecognizable from the way you described it.

    It does not matter what Jefferson said about judicial review. it is irrelevant and has no effect or impact on the result of Marbury v. Madison and the power assumed by the Court.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #367
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Whether something is criminal or treason is often determined by someones point of view. After all, the founding fathers were guilty of treason, from the point of view of the British.
    England was a foreign country thousands of miles away ruling colonies in their empire. The USA is our own nation.

    There is a huge and significant difference.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    You gave us YOUR interpretation of an event in history and the effort of some states to grandstand. All you gave us was you own spin on your own beliefs.

    There was no successful nullification which overrode a SC decision. From the wikipedia article on constititional nullification

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nullifi..._Constitution)



    The key word in the first sentence being ATTEMPTED.

    The key words in the second sentence are the entire things NONE OF THESE EFFORTS WERE LEGALLY UPHELD.

    Please note what I did there. First, I provided a link to the verifiable evidence. Secondly, I quoted the actual evidence. That is how it is done.

    Again, you may not want to muddy the waters with silly stories of don quixotic impotence. It simply proves my point and destroys yours.
    Then explain how 19 States have citizens smoking pot right now, with DC following suit, in direct conflicting with the federal government.

    Explain how the northern States' refusal to abide by the fugitive slave act ended up being so effective that the federal government now recognizes slavery as a gross infraction on individual rights.

  9. #369
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    I know that seeing as the Federal Government is not given the power to meddle with education, and that allows the state to assume that power, the Constitution though does state that the Federal Government has the power to do things that will provide for the general welfare. Would you support such a measure to nationalize schools? Feel free to explain your vote!
    No. The constitution says that congress may lay and collect taxes in order to provide welfare of the united states. Read it again:

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
    To lay and collect taxes to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the united states. So congress has a limited power to tax. This does not translate into a power to operate schools.

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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The USA is our own nation.
    No it's not a nation. It's a union of sovereign states.

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