View Poll Results: Nationalize Schools?

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Thread: Nationalizing the Education System

  1. #241
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Do they allow not doing that in Cal? Don't they have a curriculum of subjects that must be taught and students have to pass state exams to get a diploma?
    It needs to be nationwide. Actually, only those kids who are going on to college are even required to take any of the tests, which is why homeschools *LOOK* better because it's self-selecting which kids get evaluated.

    There actually isn't any state-specified curriculum that I can find, there are lots of prepackaged curriculums but also lots of people who are encouraging parents to just make up their own. I've been unable to find a list of subjects that homeschools are required, by law, to teach. That is what we need.
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It needs to be nationwide. Actually, only those kids who are going on to college are even required to take any of the tests, which is why homeschools *LOOK* better because it's self-selecting which kids get evaluated.

    There actually isn't any state-specified curriculum that I can find, there are lots of prepackaged curriculums but also lots of people who are encouraging parents to just make up their own. I've been unable to find a list of subjects that homeschools are required, by law, to teach. That is what we need.
    I was just curious. I know someone who was home schooling her daughter in Texas (she moved to Washington last month) and have heard references to her having to meet a curriculum requirement and provide proof of completion in order to not enroll the child in school. Having no practical need for the information, I haven't actually researched it, just heard it referred to.
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  3. #243
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Federal control or involvement in state schools violates the tenth amendment
    Could you cite a SC ruling which agrees with that statement?
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  4. #244
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    No, no it does not. No matter how much you want to pretend state control is the same as local control, it is not and never will be. 100% local control would mean the local school districts would determine their own curriculum, they would set their own graduation requirements, and they would asses the education level of students in their own way.

    And, again, you can repeat this to your heart's content, but it is no more true now than it was the first time you said it. State and local control are completely different.



    Federal dollars bring in significant amounts of revenue. Title 1 monies, especially, have been quite helpful over the last several years at our school. And let's not forget the amount of money for free/reduced lunch, which is vital for so many students to actually get a meal.
    This thread is about FEDERAL TAKEOVER of schools. As such, schools operated under State Constitution under the authority of the State and operated by local school districts - the system Michigan and many other states have, constitute local schools for the purposes of this thread.

    You can disagree to your hearts content, but that is true just the same.

    The term LOCAL CONTROL is used all over America and refers to states in which the system is much like Michigan - the State is given the legal authority over education and then it is passed to towns and cities to actually be carried out. This is known as LOCAL CONTROL. Lets look at a study of this type of system and see what they call it:

    http://www.leg.wa.gov/Senate/Committ...2%20FINAL5.pdf

    How are public schools in Washington organized?
    Washington is largely considered a “local control” state. This means that local school districts are generally responsible for delivering the actual instructional programs for the state’s elementary and secondary school-age population. Each district is governed by a locally-elected school board whose members serve staggered four-year terms. Each school board hires a Superintendent who oversees the day-to-day operation of the school district. Currently, there are a total of 295 school districts.
    So the term LOCAL CONTROL can and is used to refer to a public education system in which the State has legal authority and then is passed on to cities and towns in districts to actually operate and administer. Michigan has this as I have repeatedly stated. Washington has the same thing. Many other states have the same thing. And that is known as LOCAL CONTROL.

    Schools who want federal money have to accept the strings which go along with it. That is how the game is played. That does not change the fact that the schools are still local schools.

    In 230 I said this and you then took issue with it

    And the amount of federal money in most districts is relatively small as a total percentage of revenue.
    How much money does our school district receive from federal, state, and local sources? – Data First

    According to National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), the national total revenues in 2008 were broken down as follows:

    Local government: 44%
    State government: 48%
    Federal government: 8%
    Note: May not add up to 100% due to rounding.
    the above figures validate my statement about federal funds. Here is more evidence supporting my statement

    http://www.greatschools.org/improvem...ool-finance.gs


    The federal role

    Despite all the media attention to federal programs like No Child Left Behind, the federal government does not contribute a large amount to running America's schools. And the federal money that is given to schools often comes with strings attached.

    How it all breaks down

    On average, schools receive:

    About eight percent of their funding from the federal government
    Almost 50 percent from the state budget
    The rest, about 42 percent, comes from local taxes.
    Some studies may put the federal share a tiny bit higher at 9 or 10% - still a relatively small percentage of the total revenues.

    The facts are clear and support my initial statement that federal funds only account for a relatively small percentage of school funding.
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-16-13 at 07:28 AM.
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Could you cite a SC ruling which agrees with that statement?
    The SC isn't the great decider of all things government! Also, everything doesn't have to be ruled on by the SC in order to be "law". The tenth amendment is very simply worded, and with good reason: if the federal government tries to do anything not specifically enumerated in A1S8, then they are attempting to step on a state's rights.

  6. #246
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    This thread is about FEDERAL TAKEOVER of schools. As such, schools operated under State Constitution under the authority of the State and operated by local school districts - the system Michigan and many other states have, constitute local schools for the purposes of this thread.

    You can disagree to your hearts content, but that is true just the same.

    The term LOCAL CONTROL is used all over America and refers to states in which the system is much like Michigan - the State is given the legal authority over education and then it is passed to towns and cities to actually be carried out. This is known as LOCAL CONTROL. Lets look at a study of this type of system and see what they call it:

    http://www.leg.wa.gov/Senate/Committ...2%20FINAL5.pdf

    Man, you're a real piece of work... You quoted where the funding coming from using"local, state, and federal", but you're completely unwilling to admit that you're state's system isn't local, but instead primary a state controlled school system... That source you used specifically showed that there's a distinction between local and state, yet you're fighting to have the two mean the same thing...

  7. #247
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by phishfi View Post
    The SC isn't the great decider of all things government! Also, everything doesn't have to be ruled on by the SC in order to be "law". The tenth amendment is very simply worded, and with good reason: if the federal government tries to do anything not specifically enumerated in A1S8, then they are attempting to step on a state's rights.
    Really!? Who is empowered to do that if not the Supreme Court?
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  8. #248
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post

    The term LOCAL CONTROL is used all over America and refers to states in which the system is much like Michigan - the State is given the legal authority over education and then it is passed to towns and cities to actually be carried out. This is known as LOCAL CONTROL. Lets look at a study of this type of system and see what they call it:

    http://www.leg.wa.gov/Senate/Committ...2%20FINAL5.pdf



    So the term LOCAL CONTROL can and is used to refer to a public education system in which the State has legal authority and then is passed on to cities and towns in districts to actually operate and administer. Michigan has this as I have repeatedly stated. Washington has the same thing. Many other states have the same thing. And that is known as LOCAL CONTROL.
    Even before statehood, Michigan was a leader in public education. In 1809 judicial districts created schools and levied taxes to support them. Twenty years later, The Territorial Council divided the districts into school districts and gave the State the right to supervise schools.

    Michigan's first constitution created a Superintendent of Public Instruction in 1835. John D. Pierce, a frontier missionary, was Michigan's first superintendent and the first independent administrator of education appointed under a state constitution in the United States. The State Board of Education's current responsibilities were established by the 1963 State Constitution. The leadership legacy continues as Board members lead the way in improving public education through recommendations and actions that have resulted in key legislative changes.
    Michigan is very different from Washington. In '06, Michigan set a state-wide standard for all students to complete before graduation. They've had STATE supervision and administration since before Michigan was even a state. This argument that local and state mean the same thing is just ridiculous; hell, you even proved they aren't the same thing with the quote you made later in the same post:

    According to National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), the national total revenues in 2008 were broken down as follows:

    Local government: 44%
    State government: 48%
    Federal government: 8%
    Note: May not add up to 100% due to rounding.
    Which shows that the majority view local government and state government separately...

  9. #249
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by phishfi View Post
    Man, you're a real piece of work... You quoted where the funding coming from using"local, state, and federal", but you're completely unwilling to admit that you're state's system isn't local, but instead primary a state controlled school system... That source you used specifically showed that there's a distinction between local and state, yet you're fighting to have the two mean the same thing...
    I was in public education for 33 years. We used the term LOCAL SCHOOLS and LOCAL CONTROL just the way I have used it here. We used it just he way the evidence I linked to and quoted from uses it. Are they also "a real piece of work" for using the term?

    The State Constitution gives the state the legal authority over schools. The state then empowers the cities and towns and villages across the state to actually run their own schools under the supervision and control of local school boards elected by local people. This system is known as LOCAL CONTROL of LOCAL SCHOOLS.

    I provided independent verifiable evidence of this reality.
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  10. #250
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Could you cite a SC ruling which agrees with that statement?
    why do you ask silly questions that you know the answer to? The tenth amendment was raped by your beloved saint FDR and the court has been screwed up ever since then



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