View Poll Results: Nationalize Schools?

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Thread: Nationalizing the Education System

  1. #201
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Oh! I didn't realize you expatriated! Where are you living now? If you were trying to refer to the US, you're so unbelievably laughably wrong about that statement, that I truly worry about you.
    I live in Michigan. Our state Constitution makes the state responsiblefor education and the actual administration and running of that function is then passed on to over 500 different school districts. Last time I looked, Michigan was still part of the USA.
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I live in Michigan. Our state Constitution makes the state responsiblefor education and the actual administration and running of that function is then passed on to over 500 different school districts. Last time I looked, Michigan was still part of the USA.
    Sure, bud. Then you should have no problem providing a link showing that Michigan is 100% autonomous and sovereign in all matters of education and has been for the past 100 years.

  3. #203
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    The overall trajectory is to move in that direction. Although conservatives generally discuss the need to solve matters at the local state level, in education matters, the way in which public education is framed is through the national lens. Not even libertarians are immune from such an intellectual adjustment. No Child Left Behind and the subsequent Race to the Top, and the Common Core curriculum reform policies are but a small number of examples of the nationalization of the education. Personally, I have misgivings about all of these, but social, political, and economic reality thrust us to a national stage, and as such, we react. One curriculum issue I see remaining involves disputed academic subjects: history, sociology, evolution in science classrooms, and so forth. Despite previous efforts to nationalize the views of most of the social sciences into social studies for classroom use, these subjects are debated and remain controversial. I do not foresee a time where a rigorous education program for history will be possible without getting over significant political hurdles.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  4. #204
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Sure, bud. Then you should have no problem providing a link showing that Michigan is 100% autonomous and sovereign in all matters of education and has been for the past 100 years.
    The federal government operates not a single school in Michigan. Our state Constitution provides that education is the responsibility of the state and they pass that actual responsibility of establishing and running the schools to over 500 local districts.
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    The federal government operates not a single school in Michigan. Our state Constitution provides that education is the responsibility of the state and they pass that actual responsibility of establishing and running the schools to over 500 local districts.
    I didn't say you said the feds don't operate schools in Michigan. You said that education in Michigan was 100% decentralized and under local control.

    Here it is again:
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    We have had 100% decentralized local control education for well over a century now. The only model they have ever adopted is the factory assembly line system. Centralization has nothing to do with that.
    I want to see facts that prove the federal government and their DOE has absolutely zero control over any school, in any form in Michigan.

  6. #206
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I would welcome you demonstrating any evidence of your claims.
    I have made no claim that the current system is a good one. I only believe that nationalizing it could make it worse. The problems we see right now are not due to decentralization of education but due to issues in wealth gap/poverty. Those issues need to be resolved in order to fix education.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    It cannot be proven that less "federal involvement" is needed when the fact is that the countries we are behind have far more federal involvement and are very often accused of being wicked socialist.
    They are also have a smaller populations are more homogenous than the US and the political government type is that of some sort of Parlemntary System as opposed to our Divided Branches of government. This works against having the Federal Government being able to do this well.

    We could start with parents not texting their kids in class when I'm trying to teach them. 23,000 texts a month?
    How will having the Federal Government run things help in this matter?

    Yet every issue turns into bash the Feds. What a joke this country's turned into.
    This is the subject about the OP and there are people who do not want further Federal involvement.
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    At lunch yesterday, someone was telling me about a relative of theirs who will be graduating with an Associates Degree from a community college a few days before they officially graduate from high school. The dual programs that people have come up with are wonderful. The person can finish up their Bachelor's and be out of college before they are even old enough to drink. Nationalizing education would interfere with these types of programs.
    Such programs are indeed great, if you happen to live someplace where they exist. If a student is unfortunate enough to live someplace where they don't, the districting policies, at least here, prevent students from crossing district boundaries to enable them to receive such programs, assuming of course there is a district reasonably near that has it. Under the current system, students only have access to those programs the district can afford or get people for. Even if there is a better district nearby, students are not allowed to cross the boundaries (maybe not in all cases) to seek education better suited to their needs.

    Locally, we have severe problems with the boundaries, they are not allowed to cross county lines. As a result, students within a few miles of 3 different schools are forced to ride the bus for up to 5 hours a day or more to go to the school in their district/county. This also occurs, at some level but not that extreme, near state borders.

    While independent, decentralized education does allow for the existence of a greater variety of methods of education, it is only a positive if the students are allowed to seek the one that best suites their needs. Otherwise, you get parents staring across the fence at an outstanding school district while be forced to send their kids to a poor/mediocre system. While it is easy to say, well move, this is not always an option. Locally, two pieces of property adjoining each other but on different sides of a county line, the one in the outstanding district has a property value 2-3 times greater than the one in the poor school district.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  9. #209
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Such programs are indeed great, if you happen to live someplace where they exist. If a student is unfortunate enough to live someplace where they don't, the districting policies, at least here, prevent students from crossing district boundaries to enable them to receive such programs, assuming of course there is a district reasonably near that has it. Under the current system, students only have access to those programs the district can afford or get people for. Even if there is a better district nearby, students are not allowed to cross the boundaries (maybe not in all cases) to seek education better suited to their needs.

    Locally, we have severe problems with the boundaries, they are not allowed to cross county lines. As a result, students within a few miles of 3 different schools are forced to ride the bus for up to 5 hours a day or more to go to the school in their district/county. This also occurs, at some level but not that extreme, near state borders.

    While independent, decentralized education does allow for the existence of a greater variety of methods of education, it is only a positive if the students are allowed to seek the one that best suites their needs. Otherwise, you get parents staring across the fence at an outstanding school district while be forced to send their kids to a poor/mediocre system. While it is easy to say, well move, this is not always an option. Locally, two pieces of property adjoining each other but on different sides of a county line, the one in the outstanding district has a property value 2-3 times greater than the one in the poor school district.
    We have that issue too, but the tuition you have to pay to come into the city from the county districts or to go to the schools you want out of district in the county are pretty small compared to private school--I think I heard somewhere it is about $800 per year which isn't horrid though certainly unattainable for some. Within the city itself, you can move around schools but we are not some huge LA, New York type village.

  10. #210
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    The states and local districts have totally failed, so I'm for trying something else.
    Yes, but putting yet another layer (the Federal) on the existing education cake will not help the situation.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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