View Poll Results: Nationalize Schools?

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  • Yes

    16 16.84%
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    70 73.68%
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Thread: Nationalizing the Education System

  1. #171
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It doesn't. You confessed your own ignorance to a portion of American political history, and I simply pointed out that you had admitted both your ignorance an the fact that you nonetheless used to teach this material. If a math teacher had professed to not understand Geometry, I might have made the same point.
    I have no idea what you are talking about. Apparently neither do you as you have provided no evidence of your allegation.

    by the way- geometry in an entire branch of mathematics while some isolated fact in history is... well ... it is but one isolated fact in history. I would say that even the great historians such as Arthur Schlesinger did not know every single fact about every single fact in this nations 200 plus year history.... especially if some zealot or ideologue described it to him using intentionally skewed language so that the event bore little relationship to reality or what he actually knew in the first place.
    Last edited by haymarket; 05-14-13 at 10:36 AM.
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  2. #172
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    Nothing you said here either changes the fact we do not have local control of education and some of what you say is not true. States dictate plenty to schools. No Child Left Behind set standards, thereby dictating what needs to be taught.

    We do not have local control over education. Now this disagreement between us is fairly irrelevant to the argument you're having about assembly line education, but the fact is you are not correct about who controls education. The states control education. They set standards, they are requiring documentation about teaching materials, they create the content for the standardized test, etc. The state standards are set to align with the national standards, whether it is the quickly falling by the wayside NCLB or the new Common Core standards, whose adoption was a requirement for the NCLB waiver.

    Local districts do not have the control over education.
    Baloney. My state of Michigan holds education to be a State responsibility but that is then handed off to every one of the over 500 local districts in the State. The State imposes a few broad regulations and controls but the schools are run locally by local people.
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  3. #173
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Baloney. My state of Michigan holds education to be a State responsibility but that is then handed off to every one of the over 500 local districts in the State. The State imposes a few broad regulations and controls but the schools are run locally by local people.
    How about you take a gander at this?

    Grade and Course-Level Expectations (GLE/CLE)


    And then you can try to explain this:

    http://michigan.gov/documents/mde/SSGLCE_218368_7.pdf

    and this:

    MDE - Extended Grade Level Content Expectations (EGLCEs)


    You are wrong. Content standards are being dictated from the state, who receive their marching orders from the feds. Local districts do not have control.

  4. #174
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Slyfox696 View Post
    How about you take a gander at this?

    Grade and Course-Level Expectations (GLE/CLE)


    And then you can try to explain this:

    http://michigan.gov/documents/mde/SSGLCE_218368_7.pdf

    and this:

    MDE - Extended Grade Level Content Expectations (EGLCEs)


    You are wrong. Content standards are being dictated from the state, who receive their marching orders from the feds. Local districts do not have control.
    Where does it say that every school district in Michigan must implement all of that ?

    State input is part of local control - local being the people of the state of Michigan and not the federal government.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  5. #175
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Since you brought it up - I will provide the information.

    I will let Newsweek magazine give me the grade as I was a finalist in their national search for Teacher of the Year after being nominated by my school and district administration. I was selected by the State Board of Education to visit Japan and study their system and then come back and educate the educators and legislators of my state. I was rated as a Master Teacher - one of but 20% that can be named as such in my school and trained over a dozen student teachers with that responsibility. I was a chosen delegate and representative to countless educations conferences at a state and national level.

    So the grade has been given.

    If you have a paradigm to offer, please do so. So far I have seen nothing in the way of any suggestions for serious changes in education.

    I advocate the complete abolishment of the grade by grade system based on age of a student. I would replace it with a simple rule - we teach the kids what one plus one is and then give them a test. Those that pass move on - those who do not master the skill keep learning it until they do with other instructors and other methods if need be. Then do that with every single lesson taught in every single subject at every level. Some kids will finish the curriculum in eight or nine years..... some in eleven or twelve..... some may even take fifteen years of more. But so what? In the end we will have a far better educated population.

    Now that is revolutionary change that is built around student achievement.
    Fine speech, but you get a 0 for following directions. I just asked for a letter grade.

    The paradigm is that with technology we don't need as many teachers. Most students that go through schools that gear their curriculum to the "average" where the lower end of the students need more attention and all the higher end students need is general direction and some oversight. Is there anything in that model you could agree with that would cut the overall number of teachers or are you wedded to your paradigm that more money=better results?

    I believe that the teaching profession(union) polices themselves with the same deference as lawyers and physicians. As long as we perpetuate the myth that only someone in the profession can police the profession, none of it will get better. And by better, the bad actors are removed and the excellent are rewarded.

  6. #176
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    Fine speech, but you get a 0 for following directions. I just asked for a letter grade.
    You were give what was appropriate and a far better and fact based evaluation that any simple letter grade.

    The paradigm is that with technology we don't need as many teachers
    Really!? I would be more than happy to look over any evidence you want to submit on that claim.

    My so called paradigm is based on one thing and only one thing - educating every single American student to their maximum potential so that they can be functioning citizens and make solid decision which result in a good life for them as positive members of the nation.

    As for policing - I have always suported a combination effort where the views of professional educators are included, students are included, parents are included and community people outside of parents are included.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  7. #177
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What great influence does the federal government have over local education?
    Never heard of NCLB? There is also the higher education bubble our wonderful State is facilitating.

    There is a big difference between military spending and education spending. Let me know when the Air Force has to hold a bake sale to buy a new fighter jet. Let me know when the Navy has to have a charity dance to fun a new battleship.
    Point is, increased military spending does not make the citizens safer just as increased State spending on education does not necessarily help the students.


    We will rise or fall as one people in one nation. We cannot afford the luxury of a 19th century system in a 21st century world any longer.
    Decentralization does not necessarily mean going backwards. It can actually be a very progressive idea. Hell, even most Green Party folks are pro-decentralized government.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  8. #178
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Where does it say that every school district in Michigan must implement all of that ?
    You know you're fighting a losing battle, on this right?

    http://www.michigan.gov/documents/md...s_415487_7.pdf

    If you cannot understand you are wrong from this, then you clearly are not interested in facts.

    State input is part of local control - local being the people of the state of Michigan and not the federal government.
    Local district control and state control is not the same thing, and you cannot change your argument now you've been proven wrong.

  9. #179
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    What is wrong with making profits?

    Also, kids don't have any money.
    because it is education ,not trade
    "Sovereignty is not given, it is taken." ATATÜRK

  10. #180
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    because it is education ,not trade
    And if it is less expensive and yields better results, then it is still wrong because someone makes a "profit" from it? I wonder, with the pay that school administrators get, including, according to a recent article (I think it might have been of Fox, but not for sure or even if so if they were just linking another source, they do that sometimes), the 14 or so states where some school administrators actually make more than the states Gov., do you consider those people as "making a profit"?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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