View Poll Results: Nationalize Schools?

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  • Yes

    16 16.84%
  • No

    70 73.68%
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    9 9.47%
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Thread: Nationalizing the Education System

  1. #141
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    We have had 100% decentralized local control education for well over a century now. The only model they have ever adopted is the factory assembly line system.
    I am not defending the system we have now. It is also full of bureaucratic teaching-to-the-test nonsense. But allowing schools to be more flexible in their teaching/learning leads to new ideas and strategies. To use a broad brush on the entire nation through national schools is dangerous imo.

    And no, we do not have 100% decentralized education right now.

    Centralization has nothing to do with that.
    Centralization is not going to make it any better.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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  2. #142
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    Get a bigger budget, if you have better education chances are you you won't need to spend as much on welfare or other programs that are needed because of mostly bad education.
    So the US Government should just take "chances" and spend more money on public education to resolve an issue. That's not a very scientific approach now is it? Do you have any empirical evidence to support your statement?

    Didn't think so...
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  3. #143
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I am not defending the system we have now. It is also full of bureaucratic teaching-to-the-test nonsense. But allowing schools to be more flexible in their teaching/learning leads to new ideas and strategies. To use a broad brush on the entire nation through national schools is dangerous imo.

    And no, we do not have 100% decentralized education right now.



    Centralization is not going to make it any better.
    And what was the excuse before the testing obsession took over a decade ago? We still had the factory assembly line system and still had the same results for many decades.

    We have had locally controlled decentralized education for over the last century. That is reality. The federal government operates no school or school district that can be called centralized as we have been using the term.

    We need to move away from the factory assembly line system and as long as economics rules education as it does with local and state taxes, we will never get beyond that. Until we make our top priority education of all the way we did with making out military the best in the world - and damn the cost - we will continue to wallow in mediocrity for many.
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  4. #144
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    We have had locally controlled decentralized education for over the last century. That is reality. The federal government operates no school or school district that can be called centralized as we have been using the term.
    Did we really have that? Would you call it that under "busing"? Was our education system a failure for that entire century, or did it start failing somewhere along the way? What was the cause of the failures? From my point of view, we had a very good education system, for some but not all, and somewhere, somehow, we changed it to a poor system for all. What factors really caused that?

    Don't get me wrong, I actually support a national education program, but perhaps for different reasons and in a different manor than you do.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  5. #145
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And what was the excuse before the testing obsession took over a decade ago? We still had the factory assembly line system and still had the same results for many decades.
    As stated before, I believe much of the problem lies in poverty which results in many negative consequences, including bad schools and a push for an 'assembly line system.'

    We have had locally controlled decentralized education for over the last century. That is reality. The federal government operates no school or school district that can be called centralized as we have been using the term.
    The federal government has a lot of influence over the education system. But I never said the federal govt operates schools/districts.


    We need to move away from the factory assembly line system and as long as economics rules education as it does with local and state taxes, we will never get beyond that. Until we make our top priority education of all the way we did with making out military the best in the world - and damn the cost - we will continue to wallow in mediocrity for many.
    Funny you mention the military. We spend more on military than the next ten top military spenders combined and we still find a way to screw everything up. I don't see it as any different with education. You want to deal with a symptom and throw money at it. I want to deal with the root of the problem (that is, poverty), and still allow parents, teachers, and communities to control their own education.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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  6. #146
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    I want to deal with the root of the problem (that is, poverty), and still allow parents, teachers, and communities to control their own education.
    I don't see poverty as the root problem. Greed, selfishness, laziness, these are some of the root causes of poverty. Most people who live in "poverty" (quotations because I have seen real poverty and it doesn't exist in the US) do so as the direct result of their own choices. Opportunity exist, even today, the fact that they wallow in poverty instead of taking advantage of those opportunities clearly proves it is their choice, not a problem with society.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    I don't see poverty as the root problem. Greed, selfishness, laziness, these are some of the root causes of poverty.
    Laziness could lead to one living in poverty but that does not explain the systemic issue. We have enough fertile land on this Earth to allow each individual to live on 4 acres. The cause of the poverty is privilege. Specifically, the privilege of appropriation in the natural world

    There is a cause for this poverty; and, if you trace it down, you will find its root in a primary injustice. Look over the world today — poverty everywhere. The cause must be a common one. You cannot attribute it to the tariff, or to the form of government, or to this thing or to that in which nations differ; because, as deep poverty is common to them all the cause that produces it must be a common cause. What is that common cause? There is one sufficient cause that is common to all nations; and that is the appropriation as the property of some of that natural element on which and from which all must live. ...

    WealthAndWant theme: The Causes of Poverty

    Most people who live in "poverty" (quotations because I have seen real poverty and it doesn't exist in the US)
    Only because government programs and laws alleviate the severity of the poverty.


    do so as the direct result of their own choices.
    Completely untrue. Many of those who live in poverty were born into it.


    Opportunity exist, even today, the fact that they wallow in poverty instead of taking advantage of those opportunities clearly proves it is their choice, not a problem with society.
    A typical response for the status quo apologists. A few will overcome the obstacles and pull themselves out of poverty but it does not make those obstacles just.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  8. #148
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Education should be completely privatized. Get rid of all public schooling in favor of private schools.
    The commercialization of education, carried out by global
    corporations, is the practice of altering or disrupting the
    teaching and learning process in schools from kindergarten
    through college, by introducing advertising and other
    commercial activities in order to increase profit. Corporations
    claim, with great fanfare, that they are ‘community partners’
    bringing needed resources to underfunded
    schools and helping students get the things
    that legislators can’t or won’t provide. In
    reality, through tax loopholes and lobbying,
    corporations have themselves defunded
    education. In-School marketers have made it
    clear that they intend to infiltrate and use
    public schools as a vehicle for reaching a
    captive audience. Their stated goal is to
    brand children as early as possible to
    consume their clients’ products.

    What is commercialization of education? - Yahoo! Answers
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  9. #149
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    The commercialization of education, carried out by global
    corporations, is the practice of altering or disrupting the
    teaching and learning process in schools from kindergarten
    through college, by introducing advertising and other
    commercial activities in order to increase profit. Corporations
    claim, with great fanfare, that they are ‘community partners’
    bringing needed resources to underfunded
    schools and helping students get the things
    that legislators can’t or won’t provide. In
    reality, through tax loopholes and lobbying,
    corporations have themselves defunded
    education. In-School marketers have made it
    clear that they intend to infiltrate and use
    public schools as a vehicle for reaching a
    captive audience. Their stated goal is to
    brand children as early as possible to
    consume their clients’ products.

    What is commercialization of education? - Yahoo! Answers
    What is wrong with making profits?

    Also, kids don't have any money.

  10. #150
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    Re: Nationalizing the Education System

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    Laziness could lead to one living in poverty but that does not explain the systemic issue. We have enough fertile land on this Earth to allow each individual to live on 4 acres. The cause of the poverty is privilege. Specifically, the privilege of appropriation in the natural world
    And less than 1 in 4 would have either the knowledge or the will to do a damned thing with it, thus making it better for all to leave in the hands of those who will utilize it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    There is a cause for this poverty; and, if you trace it down, you will find its root in a primary injustice. Look over the world today — poverty everywhere. The cause must be a common one. You cannot attribute it to the tariff, or to the form of government, or to this thing or to that in which nations differ; because, as deep poverty is common to them all the cause that produces it must be a common cause. What is that common cause? There is one sufficient cause that is common to all nations; and that is the appropriation as the property of some of that natural element on which and from which all must live. ...

    WealthAndWant theme: The Causes of Poverty



    Only because government programs and laws alleviate the severity of the poverty.




    Completely untrue. Many of those who live in poverty were born into it.




    A typical response for the status quo apologists. A few will overcome the obstacles and pull themselves out of poverty but it does not make those obstacles just.
    Thank you for a lesson in communist excuses on why individuals shouldn't do for themselves. The core of any society is the individual and societies can only be as just or successful as the individuals who make up that society. No matter the obstacle placed in ones path, the individual must overcome them, not society, otherwise the individual is fit for nothing other than fertilizer or worm food, ok, maybe buzzards need to eat also. In order to build strong individuals, society, like nature, places obstacles to test the individual. This is neither wrong or unjust, but merely a testing of what class a person should be in.

    Or society wrongly and unjustly takes for the successful to maintain and comfort the failures. This can only lead to greater and greater numbers of failures as they never have to learn from their mistakes to survive. They are only taught that it is ok to fail to overcome the obstacles of life.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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