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Are politicians stupid and/or incompetent?

Are politicians stupid and/or incompetent?

  • Yes, they are incompetent and/or stupid.

    Votes: 4 16.7%

  • No, they are not incompetent and/or stupid.

    Votes: 8 33.3%

  • In some ways yes, in some ways no.

    Votes: 8 33.3%

  • Other. (Please elaborate)

    Votes: 4 16.7%
  • Total voters
    24
radcen

radcen

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Are politicians stupid and/or incompetent?

I hear this a lot. Shoot, I've even been known to say it myself. But, when I slow down and think about what it is they do, and how they do it, and why they do it, I honestly cannot come to that conclusion. In fact, I think they're brilliant. Evilly brilliant. Masterful in deception. Opportunists of the highest degree.

Bottom line: Politicians play us like the proverbial fiddle. And we keep falling for it. Yeah, we piss and moan and complain, then go out and re-elect the same ones over and over again. They know we're not happy, but they also know where the line is that they cannot cross that might actually spur us to action. They do enough to give us a comfortable life, so we get more upset over Twinkies disappearing from store shelves than we do from the outright theft of civil asset forfeiture (as just one example).

Yes, there are some of us who see through it. Unfortunately, we're such a small percentage that we're pretty much disregarded.

We're suckers. They know it. They leverage that fact to their benefit. We let them. If anybody is stupid and/or incompetent, it is us.

Note: Most references to "we" and "us" are meant to be generic for society overall. Not any one specific person.
 
Populist victimization complex in full display here.
 
they are just clever
 
You paint it as a grand conspiracy, where they are keeping you down, when in fact all it is is governing reality. You don't get what you want because it is difficult to get all you want. The small things are easy to debate, easier to understand, easier to come to resolutions on. They don't sit there and plot about how to control you, there's no congregation meetings, no Pinkie and the Brain sessions. It's just politics as we make it to be.
 
Politicians aren't stupid, they're usually quite clever in how they manipulate people. The problem is that most politicians are lawyers or business people. If we had more historians in politics we would live in a much better world.
 
Fiddytree said:
You paint it as a grand conspiracy, where they are keeping you down, when in fact all it is is governing reality. You don't get what you want because it is difficult to get all you want. The small things are easy to debate, easier to understand, easier to come to resolutions on. They don't sit there and plot about how to control you, there's no congregation meetings, no Pinkie and the Brain sessions. It's just politics as we make it to be.
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I agree with you to a point. I don't see some conspiratorial secret society thing going on, no. But, given that, it has been well established that when it comes to things like gerrymandering and election laws that both of the main parties do indeed work together to secure their place in the system as much as possible.
 
Northern Light said:
Politicians aren't stupid, they're usually quite clever in how they manipulate people. The problem is that most politicians are lawyers or business people. If we had more historians in politics we would live in a much better world.
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Many believe that more business people in elected office would solve a lot of problems. I'm not one of those people. I don't have anything against business people holding office, I just don't equate the running of government to be even remotely close to that of running a business. Some business people can adapt to the different mindset, some cannot.
 
radcen said:
Many believe that more business people in elected office would solve a lot of problems. I'm not one of those people. I don't have anything against business people holding office, I just don't equate the running of government to be even remotely close to that of running a business. Some business people can adapt to the different mindset, some cannot.
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We've had decades of direct observation which shows that putting business people at the helm does not yield good policy for the long-term health of the nation, in most areas.

I would also like to see more middle class people in politics, instead of plutocrats.
 
I think their are 5 traits that politicians just as the rest of us (most) suffer.

1. Self serving.
2. Wish to force (all)others to conform to their beliefs or outlook.
3. Reluctant to compromise or try new things they may not agree with.
4. Take leaps when baby steps would suffice.
5. Bias against facts that do not fit into their views.
 
Northern Light said:
We've had decades of direct observation which shows that putting business people at the helm does not yield good policy for the long-term health of the nation, in most areas.

I would also like to see more middle class people in politics, instead of plutocrats.
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I have long held the belief that the vast majority of people who go into politics do so for honest and noble reasons. Then, for whatever reason, most of them end up getting "corrupted" (for lack of a better word). They lose sight of why they went in.

I think the easiest way to observe this is to watch a city council person evolve from their first days to having been in for a few years. What the people want, or what might be best for the city doesn't seem nearly as important. What city staff and/or other council members want is.
 
radcen said:
I have long held the belief that the vast majority of people who go into politics do so for honest and noble reasons. Then, for whatever reason, most of them end up getting "corrupted" (for lack of a better word). They lose sight of why they went in.

I think the easiest way to observe this is to watch a city council person evolve from their first days to having been in for a few years. What the people want, or what might be best for the city doesn't seem nearly as important. What city staff and/or other council members want is.
Click to expand...

Even almighty angels can be corrupted.
 
Northern Light said:
Politicians aren't stupid, they're usually quite clever in how they manipulate people. The problem is that most politicians are lawyers or business people. If we had more historians in politics we would live in a much better world.
Click to expand...

I don't believe so. While historians can contribute, and have good insights, that does not mean that there isn't good reason for why we are predominantly focused on the law. Nor would it prevent us from stating that a historian could also have many failures in political action(for the longest while, that was a common argument about Wilson). Historians weren't particularly distraught to report that the United States has always been dominated by lawyers and that our focus on law defines us as a people. There's also a skepticism about the extension of the past into the present or the future. Many historians tend to be...reluctant, to ascribe special status to their skills and insights for direct and total application in times of need.
 
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My experience has been that politicians are generally very incompetent at their job.

Their level of intelligence can vary wildly. I think Obama is VERY intelligent...but he is clearly incompetent at his job (as GWB was before him...incompetent, I mean; not sure how bright he is).

But almost all of them (90+% IMO) are incompetent and/or corrupt.


However, the masses put them there...so the ultimate fault is there own.
 
They are stupid and incompetent. But people believe them because they are in a position of "authority". Until we start looking at all politicians as our servants, because that is what they, we will never have a better political class.
 
Fiddytree said:
I don't believe so. While historians can contribute, and have good insights, that does not mean that there isn't good reason for why we are predominantly focused on the law. Nor would it prevent us from stating that a historian could also have many failures in political action(for the longest while, that was a common argument about Wilson). Historians weren't particularly distraught to report that the United States has always been dominated by lawyers and that our focus on law defines us as a people. There's also a skepticism about the extension of the past into the present or the future. Many historians tend to be...reluctant, to ascribe special status to their skills and insights for direct and total application in times of need.
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I don't think it has to be either/or, just that the lawyers and business people have dominated the political scene for far too long. I would like to see more historians and scientists joining the ranks.

All of the pitfalls of certain historians that you mention could be remedied by ensuring the right historians end up in politics.
 
All of them are a combo of both, however there are some that have a brain of their own but it gets corrupted by the privilege of power and lots of money.
 
Depends on the politician.

Also, I think that career politicians tend to get worse (generally) over time.
 
DA60 said:
My experience has been that politicians are generally very incompetent at their job.

Their level of intelligence can vary wildly. I think Obama is VERY intelligent...but he is clearly incompetent at his job (as GWB was before him...incompetent, I mean; not sure how bright he is).

But almost all of them (90+% IMO) are incompetent and/or corrupt.

However, the masses put them there...so the ultimate fault is there own.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't equate incompetence and corruptness. In fact, to be successfully corrupt, one has to be competent... just with illicit intent.
 
radcen said:
Are politicians stupid and/or incompetent?

I hear this a lot. Shoot, I've even been known to say it myself. But, when I slow down and think about what it is they do, and how they do it, and why they do it, I honestly cannot come to that conclusion. In fact, I think they're brilliant. Evilly brilliant. Masterful in deception. Opportunists of the highest degree.

Bottom line: Politicians play us like the proverbial fiddle. And we keep falling for it. Yeah, we piss and moan and complain, then go out and re-elect the same ones over and over again. They know we're not happy, but they also know where the line is that they cannot cross that might actually spur us to action. They do enough to give us a comfortable life, so we get more upset over Twinkies disappearing from store shelves than we do from the outright theft of civil asset forfeiture (as just one example).

Yes, there are some of us who see through it. Unfortunately, we're such a small percentage that we're pretty much disregarded.

We're suckers. They know it. They leverage that fact to their benefit. We let them. If anybody is stupid and/or incompetent, it is us.

Note: Most references to "we" and "us" are meant to be generic for society overall. Not any one specific person.
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I agree whole heartily. Only a bunch of stupid and incompetent voters would keep sending the very same people back to Washington who have gotten this nation into the serious problems it faces today. You are correct, politicians, the political parties know exactly how to play us like a fiddle.

The political parties have us voters right where they wants us and we do not realize it. The politicians pull the strings, we as puppets dance.
 
Fiddytree said:
You paint it as a grand conspiracy, where they are keeping you down, when in fact all it is is governing reality. You don't get what you want because it is difficult to get all you want. The small things are easy to debate, easier to understand, easier to come to resolutions on. They don't sit there and plot about how to control you, there's no congregation meetings, no Pinkie and the Brain sessions. It's just politics as we make it to be.
Click to expand...

I'm too lazy to look it up but I think that intrigue and manipulation are part of what 'politics' is.
 
radcen said:
Are politicians stupid and/or incompetent?

I hear this a lot. Shoot, I've even been known to say it myself. But, when I slow down and think about what it is they do, and how they do it, and why they do it, I honestly cannot come to that conclusion. In fact, I think they're brilliant. Evilly brilliant. Masterful in deception. Opportunists of the highest degree.

Bottom line: Politicians play us like the proverbial fiddle. And we keep falling for it. Yeah, we piss and moan and complain, then go out and re-elect the same ones over and over again. They know we're not happy, but they also know where the line is that they cannot cross that might actually spur us to action. They do enough to give us a comfortable life, so we get more upset over Twinkies disappearing from store shelves than we do from the outright theft of civil asset forfeiture (as just one example).

Yes, there are some of us who see through it. Unfortunately, we're such a small percentage that we're pretty much disregarded.

We're suckers. They know it. They leverage that fact to their benefit. We let them. If anybody is stupid and/or incompetent, it is us.

Note: Most references to "we" and "us" are meant to be generic for society overall. Not any one specific person.
Click to expand...

I don't think most of them are brilliant at all. Just think about some of the things they say. Here's just one quote of many to demonstrate. ;)

Congressman Hank Johnson on Guam: "My fear is that the whole island will become so overly populated that it will tip over and capsize,"
Click to expand...
 
Fiddytree said:
You paint it as a grand conspiracy, where they are keeping you down, when in fact all it is is governing reality. You don't get what you want because it is difficult to get all you want. The small things are easy to debate, easier to understand, easier to come to resolutions on. They don't sit there and plot about how to control you, there's no congregation meetings, no Pinkie and the Brain sessions. It's just politics as we make it to be.
Click to expand...

Hmmm. Funny you should say that. If they don't want to control us, explain the tax on Big Gulps then . . . among other ridiculous taxes to try to "control" our behavior.
 
radcen said:
I have long held the belief that the vast majority of people who go into politics do so for honest and noble reasons. Then, for whatever reason, most of them end up getting "corrupted" (for lack of a better word). They lose sight of why they went in.

I think the easiest way to observe this is to watch a city council person evolve from their first days to having been in for a few years. What the people want, or what might be best for the city doesn't seem nearly as important. What city staff and/or other council members want is.
Click to expand...

I think the reasons why people go into politics varies. A lot of them are from families of politicians and that's just what's expected of them. I think some of them are actually born and bred to be politicians.
 
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