View Poll Results: Do you believe in Democracy?

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  • Yes.

    25 55.56%
  • No.

    15 33.33%
  • I hate the government.

    5 11.11%
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Thread: Do you believe in Democracy?

  1. #11
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I notice that some people on the board do not support democracy, so I was curious to see what the overall opinion is.
    But only because your definition also includes representational democracy. True democratic voting for some things, especially local issues, is great. For others it would never really work.
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  2. #12
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    It kills me how people fear the "rule by majority" but just love the "rule by elite minority" that we have now. You think because you have a vote every 2 or 4 years that you have a say in how your life is governed? Is Obama really doing what people expected of him? Change? Far from it. Did GWB really do what the people expected of him? Far from it. Politician's have no need to do what is in the best interest of the people when so many moneyed interests have much better options for them and can get them re-elected as well. The only thing that can bring our governments back to doing what is best for the people is direct democracy. If people don't like that then I really think we should consider not even having voting rights and just let the moneyed interests decide who governs. We're pretty much there anyway, so why do they need our votes? Maybe just to validate a corrupt system?

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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    You left off "other".

    I believe in a merit based democratic system, a meritocracy. The right to vote and hold office should not be based solely on being alive and breathing but earned through some measurable action. Frankly, I like Heinlein's service before citizenship idea. I don't think it is perfect, but much, much better than our current system.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  4. #14
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I notice that some people on the board do not support democracy, so I was curious to see what the overall opinion is.
    Democracy, or a representative Republic, is to-date the best form of government for large populations and bureaucracies. Until an entirely new governing philosophy is created, the Democracy/Republic it is.

  5. #15
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I notice that some people on the board do not support democracy, so I was curious to see what the overall opinion is.
    When it comes to my individual rights, I care not what the mob thinks. Our rights are specifically the kinds of things that cannot legally be voted away.

    I like the idea of democratically elected officials, because you can get rid of the meddlesome ones. Else Democracy to me is just two wolves and a sheep deciding on whats for dinner. When those that rob Peter to pay Paul always have Paul's support, the thieving and corruption will not end.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  6. #16
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    When it comes to my individual rights, I care not what the mob thinks. Our rights are specifically the kinds of things that cannot legally be voted away.

    I like the idea of democratically elected officials, because you can get rid of the meddlesome ones. Else Democracy to me is just two wolves and a sheep deciding on whats for dinner. When those that rob Peter to pay Paul always have Paul's support, the thieving and corruption will not end.
    This "two wolves and a sheep" stuff is what I am trying to understand. What is the alternative that protects the sheep? Sounds more like FUD to keep people believing in their elected officials than anything else. Say we have a town of 100 people. Instead of direct democracy, where everyone gets a vote on matters that affect them, we instead choose two democratically elected administrators who immediately realize their power and then all of a sudden it is two wolves and 98 sheep. No matter what, sheep's for dinner.

    The hidden benefit to direct democracy is that it would be much more difficult to do stuff that is obviously not in the interest of the people. Try to push through the Patriot Act when more than half of the country has to agree on it. Or bailout inefficient banks that should rightly fail in the free, unregulated market they wanted so badly.

  7. #17
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    This "two wolves and a sheep" stuff is what I am trying to understand. What is the alternative that protects the sheep?
    A well armed sheep contesting the vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    Sounds more like FUD to keep people believing in their elected officials than anything else. Say we have a town of 100 people. Instead of direct democracy, where everyone gets a vote on matters that affect them, we instead choose two democratically elected administrators who immediately realize their power and then all of a sudden it is two wolves and 98 sheep. No matter what, sheep's for dinner.
    So long as that sheep has rights he can appeal to a court over, rights they must recognize, then it isn't "no matter what."

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    The hidden benefit to direct democracy is that it would be much more difficult to do stuff that is obviously not in the interest of the people. Try to push through the Patriot Act when more than half of the country has to agree on it. Or bailout inefficient banks that should rightly fail in the free, unregulated market they wanted so badly.
    None of that would be worth the costs of mob rule.
    Haymarket's "support" of the 2nd Amendment, a right he believes we never had.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    no. You cannot lose rights you do not have in the first place. There is no such thing as the right to have any weapon of your choice regardless of any other consideration. It simply does not exist.

  8. #18
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I notice that some people on the board do not support democracy, so I was curious to see what the overall opinion is.
    Depends on the type. Pure democracy? No, that's just mob rule. Something like a Democratic Republic where the will of the majority is held in check by the rights and liberties of the minority? Yeah, I can go for that.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #19
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    When it comes to my individual rights, I care not what the mob thinks. Our rights are specifically the kinds of things that cannot legally be voted away.

    I like the idea of democratically elected officials, because you can get rid of the meddlesome ones. Else Democracy to me is just two wolves and a sheep deciding on whats for dinner. When those that rob Peter to pay Paul always have Paul's support, the thieving and corruption will not end.
    ??? Yes they can - it's just damn hard to do it because it takes much more than a simple majority and a lot of hoops to jump through.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #20
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    No, the majority of people are too dumb.
    مثلي مثلك

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