View Poll Results: Do you believe in Democracy?

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  • Yes.

    25 55.56%
  • No.

    15 33.33%
  • I hate the government.

    5 11.11%
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Thread: Do you believe in Democracy?

  1. #91
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    Exactly. So why does everyone think democratically elected representatives are better at decision making than the general public is? Aren't they both idiots? At least in a participatory democracy the people get what they vote for. If they get it wrong they pay for their mistakes. In a representative democracy the politicians usually get it wrong and the people still pay for the mistakes.
    The people get what they vote for, now. There's one thing every politician, except second term presidents, want - another term in office.


    But to answer your question, you're essentially killing the Senate by doing that. There are reasons it takes both the House and the Senate to pass a law.
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  2. #92
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    Exactly. So why does everyone think democratically elected representatives are better at decision making than the general public is? Aren't they both idiots? At least in a participatory democracy the people get what they vote for. If they get it wrong they pay for their mistakes. In a representative democracy the politicians usually get it wrong and the people still pay for the mistakes.
    Not only that, but direct democracy has never been tried beyond the smallest and most local levels. The amount of strong opposition to something that has never been tried is interesting.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 05-12-13 at 05:28 PM.

  3. #93
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    I see from this thread that most people really don't want to be involved in the decision making that affects their lives.
    No we do not want to be ruled over by an unfettered democratic quorum.

    It makes me wonder if we are not finally ready for some form of World Government.
    At this point the World will not be ready of one for Centuries.

    How would we like a world government to be? Dictator? Monarch?
    Over the dead bodies of those who would try to establish such.

    Or should we just let the US government be the world government?
    Sorry, our club has standards not just any state can join.

    If we let the US government be the world government, then we can finally stop voting and just let Wall St. decide what is best for all of us. I pledge allegiance to the logo, of the Goldman Sachs hegemony....
    Wall Street is the finical capital of this world just about. Politicaly if the US is the world government then DC would be the Site of World Government.

    Another idea I had awhile ago was to finally stop the charade and just privatize the US government, and turn it into US Government, Inc.
    You should understand the States are the Stakeholders in the Federal Government and any thing that is removed from the federal government would go back to Them.

    As a private, for profit, institution it can sell its services to generate the revenue it needs.
    Much of what the Fed Gov might be done by the private market if privatized doesn't mean that it gets to keep a monopoly status so there goes World Gov right there.

    It then is only responsible to do what is in the best interest of its shareholders.
    For those functions that are necessary to be held by government (and cannot be privatized) the share holders would be the States or The People depending what function is being referred. By the way just because a corporation is run by a Board doesn't mean that they will do so in the best interests of its shareholders.

    And if you want a say in how you are governed you only have to buy enough shares of US Government, Inc, to get your way.
    A Corporate Board doesn't need to serve any particular shareholder or the shareholders collectively and without a independent government or organization how can you hold any particular Board to account?

    If not, sit back and let US Government, Inc. decide what is the best use for you.
    Just another reason why any government by whatever makeup must have strict limits on what it can do.

    By the way, how's that for all you free market fanatics?
    Obviously what you are describing is not a free market it is Absolute Corporatism.

    Maybe all governments could follow the US and privatize.
    The US has not "privatized"

    Through the magic of free market capitalism we will eventually end up with World Government, Inc.
    In a global free market do we need a World Government even? Just some sort of system of treaties between governments so we can have rule of law and established rights and responsibilities under contract law.
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  4. #94
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    I happen to like the idea of a Republic...not a Democracy.
    Libertarian and Atheist...wow I'm a hated man.

  5. #95
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I notice that some people on the board do not support democracy, so I was curious to see what the overall opinion is.
    Yeesh, this is one of the more depressing polls I've seen awhile. The fact that almost half the people on this forum don't believe in a system of government where a country's people can actually have a voice in their future when so many our ancestors suffered (and often died) so we could have one feeds into my growing belief that our political culture is past the point of redeeming itself.

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  6. #96
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    The truth is, these people who really don't like democracy should keep their mouths shut when it is time to pay the bills of the government. So far the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have cost the taxpayers $2 trillion. The final cost with everything including veteran benefits is estimated to be between 4 and 6 trillion total. If everyone knew what their burden of cost for those wars was, do you think those wars would have survived a referendum? The big banks screamed for decades for a freer market and then when they took advantage of that free market they screw everything up and then turn out to be socialists and asked the government for a handout. How many would have voted in a referendum to give them a $trillion bailout instead of making them pay for their own mistakes? The real cost of that bailout is estimated to be over $10 trillion and it is coming out of our paychecks. Because you have very little say in what the government does, and no way to hold politicians accountable, might as well get your checkbooks ready because the bill is fast becoming extremely expensive. What is the national debt today? And what is your share? What will the national debt be in the next few years? That debt, and its massive interest, gets paid by you, not the government.

    More importantly, this thread has demonstrated just how much we distrust each other. No wonder we have lost all sense of community. I really wonder how we got to this point where we trust our government more than our neighbors. No wonder the government can get away with the Patriot Act. Our biggest enemy is our neighbor.

    I'll remind everyone again. There are places where there is more participatory democracy than the US and the people are more involved in the government of their lives. These countries are actually far from mob rule and everyone seems to be happier and get along just fine with their neighbors. Switzerland is just one example. The have a much higher quality of life, impressive material well being, but most importantly, they have an enormous amount of social capital. It is this social capital that really allows the good life. Now we know why the average US citizen is always so unhappy and needs a high dose of Prozac just to get through the day: absolutely no social capital.
    Last edited by kenc; 05-13-13 at 05:29 AM.

  7. #97
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I notice that some people on the board do not support democracy, so I was curious to see what the overall opinion is.

    If your talking pure democracy the founders hated it

  8. #98
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    Re: Do you believe in Democracy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Not only that, but direct democracy has never been tried beyond the smallest and most local levels. The amount of strong opposition to something that has never been tried is interesting.
    It was tried in Athens. In a democracy the minority has no rights.

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