View Poll Results: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

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  • 0-5 years

    59 42.45%
  • 5-10 years

    38 27.34%
  • 10-15 years

    17 12.23%
  • 15-20 years

    6 4.32%
  • 20-25 years

    2 1.44%
  • 25+ years

    2 1.44%
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    15 10.79%
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Thread: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

  1. #51
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    Then perhaps people who want to twist marriage should refrain from constantly bleating about whom they "love," and "fairness," which are after all, emotional arguments?
    Not my argument, try again. Hint: responding to my actual words will work better than responding to what you wish I had said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  2. #52
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Legal recognition for benefits is the issue, that should be removed. IOW if a ceremony is performed the marriage should automatically be authorized for all benefits contained therein. For instance if I marry a fiance in the Catholic church she has a right to my property upon death or divorce, all benefits I get through a company like insurance are legally mandated for her to be covered under, etc. what I was saying is that the government does not get to pick and choose, any marriage should have equal legal protections and a justice of the peace(civil ceremony) would have to be performed under equal protections law. What I am arguing is that no level of government may pick and choose what to recognize as "legal", I'm actually using the first amendment(religious protection) and fourteenth(binds all rights to all levels of government) to state that government shall not have authority to decide which marriages(barring child, etc.) they may recognize.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Not at all. Private organizations can handle all parts of marriage.
    Nah. Whatever rationale du jour is used it's fantastically transparent that those who reject gay marriage want to exist under a separate system so they can plausibly claim that gay marriages are illegitimate. Under the current system (and the one that homosexuals are fighting to be included in), no matter where I go in this country no one can tell me my marriage isn't real, despite whatever religious and arbitrary personal reasons they may hold for thinking so. Under your proposed system they can, which is of course the point. You know it, I know it, we all know it. All the winking isn't going to change it.

  3. #53
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Not at all. Private organizations can handle all parts of marriage.
    No they can't, not well. What about within the law? Many of the parts of marriage are legal issues. Recognition of the spouse legally as a person's closest legal relative and someone who, by agreeing to marry the other person, shares some at least financial assets and debts. They also do legally join, at least to a small extent, families, since the FLA covers inlaws dying. Plus there is the military, which gives a lot of benefits to spouses because of the demand of the military on the military members.

    There is a cost issue involved, not to mention marriage licenses make everything more efficient, for both the couple and the government.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #54
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Nah. Whatever rationale du jour is used it's fantastically transparent that those who reject gay marriage want to exist under a separate system so they can plausibly claim that gay marriages are illegitimate.
    What are you talking about? I support gay marriage just as much as anyone else. I'm just different in that I don't support the governments involvement in marriage. I really don't care one little bit who wants to spend their lives together and as long as everyone consents the government has no business to even care either. I suppose there is nothing I can do about bigots joining my ranks, but this is basically the libertarian position on marriage.

    Under the current system (and the one that homosexuals are fighting to be included in), no matter where I go in this country no one can tell me my marriage isn't real, despite whatever religious and arbitrary personal reasons they may hold for thinking so. Under your proposed system they can, which is of course the point. You know it, I know it, we all know it. All the winking isn't going to change it.
    So your concern is that someone along the way will reject the existence of your contract?
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-10-13 at 12:27 PM.

  5. #55
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Promoting state rights so they have the right to discriminate is a terrible and morally bankrupt argument for keeping the Federal government out of it.
    The discrimination would lie in denying voters their right to vote on a policy issue. The morally bankrupt aspect is telling the people that their votes don't matter. The federal government should never get involved in forcing states to accept SSM in their legal definitions of marriage.
    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    Reason?????
    Marriage is a state issue. Each state has (and should retain) the right to approve of or not approve of SSM and uphold traditional marriage. The feds shouldn't get involved, and the rights of the state to set state policy should be preserved.
    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    Disgusting.
    Nah, what's disgusting is telling the voters in all the other states that have upheld traditional marriage that their beliefs, votes, and state policies on a state issue don't count and that they somehow have to legally accept SSM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Why? Whats wrong with equality? Arent all men created equal?
    We have equality. All men a created equal with one vote. SSM, polygamous marriages, and other alterations to the definition of marriage are policy issues. It would be a breach of equality to deny people of a certain opinion their right to vote and to reverse and destroy the laws that were lawfully put in place to preserve traditional marriage.
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  6. #56
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oftencold View Post
    It weren't equal 'cause the same people couldn't a married the same people. They weren't equal. You aren't trying to create an equal right but a new one. (And reinvent civilization, religion morality and nature.) It's been tired before of course. The history books are full of references to dead civilization that tried. Typically, in short order they're supplanted by more vital ones.
    Which is why same sex marriage restrictions aren't equal.

    If you line up 10 men and 10 women, they all can get married. However, they cannot marry the same people. The men cannot marry the men, nor can the women marry the women. That is unequal based on sex/gender, not sexuality.

    And the history books are full of civilizations that shunned and/or killed homosexuals throughout their existence as well. Failed logic.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #57
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Marriage is a state issue. Each state has (and should retain) the right to approve of or not approve of SSM and uphold traditional marriage. The feds shouldn't get involved, and the rights of the state to set state policy should be preserved.
    -marriage is not a state issue its a right, SCOTUS disagrees with you, rights of these nature are never states issues nor should they ever be just like interracial marriage.
    -traditional marriage is a made up thing and its in zero danger, my traditions and your traditions and your neighbor could all be different and they stay that way because those traditions belong to US, your traditions have ZERO impact on mine and vice versa. When people mention traditional marriage its a complete cop out of the issue because no one can ever factually explain how its impacted and why this ONE issue makes it different
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What are you talking about? I support gay marriage just as much as anyone else. I'm just different in that I don't support the governments involvement in marriage. I really don't care one little bit who wants to spend their lives together and as long as everyone consents the government has no business to even care either. I suppose there is nothing I can do about bigots joining my ranks, but this is basically the libertarian position on marriage.



    So your concern is that someone along the way will reject the existence of your contract?
    Not to lump you in with all Libertarians as I'm perfectly aware that you're not Borg, but removing the government from marriage has been consistently a Libertarian postion on this forum, and not once has a Libertarian been able to coherently explain to me why I should share their enthusiasm for doing so. Every "solution" they come up with is invariably a gigantic pain in the ass compared to the current system.

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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    The discrimination would lie in denying voters their right to vote on a policy issue. The morally bankrupt aspect is telling the people that their votes don't matter. The federal government should never get involved in forcing states to accept SSM in their legal definitions of marriage.
    If you see people being "discriminated" against because they're being denied the right to vote away the rights of others, then I'd say your understanding of what constitutes as discrimination is terribly flawed.

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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Marriage is a state issue. Each state has (and should retain) the right to approve of or not approve of SSM and uphold traditional marriage. The feds shouldn't get involved, and the rights of the state to set state policy should be preserved.
    As someone else on this forum has already noted, "state rights" has, sadly, devolved into code for "the right to discriminate against its citizens without Federal meddling."

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