View Poll Results: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

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  • 0-5 years

    59 42.45%
  • 5-10 years

    38 27.34%
  • 10-15 years

    17 12.23%
  • 15-20 years

    6 4.32%
  • 20-25 years

    2 1.44%
  • 25+ years

    2 1.44%
  • Never

    15 10.79%
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Thread: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

  1. #301
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    And rhetorical.
    and you still have no facts to support you previous posts, still have been factually proven wrong and still will not start an honest discussion to be further discussed. lol

    we'll keep waiting, maybe next post youll do it
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Are you kidding? It was solely political.
    No decision is solely political, especially that one. Besides, that wasn't my point. A political decision can still have radical implications. In a relatively short time, Lincoln had moved to abolish slavery. He also promised no compensation to slaveholders for it nor colonization, which went against the traditional conceptions of anti-slavery rhetoric of the recent past. Plus the military was enforcing it. Still very much a radical decision.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 05-20-13 at 03:13 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    No decision is solely political, especially that one. Besides, that wasn't my point. A political decision can still have radical implications. In a relatively short time, Lincoln had moved to abolish slavery. He also promised no compensation to slaveholders for it nor colonization, which went against the traditional conceptions of anti-slavery rhetoric of the recent past. Plus the military was enforcing it. Still very much a radical decision.
    Ah, most Abolitionists in the US wanted slavery abolished in every country. England wanted slavery abolished in every country. The thought of abolishing slavery in the union wasn't radical. It was expected.

    The Emancipation Proclamation did at least 2 things:

    (1) made the the confederacy fearful of slave uprisings (death of masters).

    (2) maintained the neutrality of important countries like England by appearing to free slaves.

    If England recognized the confederacy, the union's blockade of confederate ports would have been crushed by English ships.

    England was already thinking of wavering in its neutral stance on the Civil War because King Cotton was being choked out of England, and
    consequently numerous manufacturing jobs in England were lost, and English workers were getting riled up.

    Lincoln was most definitely not an Abolitionist. His main goal was to keep the union together at any costs.

    So, the Emancipation Proclamation was undoubtably, and solely political.
    Last edited by cabse5; 05-21-13 at 03:06 PM.

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    How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Ah, most Abolitionists in the US wanted slavery abolished everywhere. England wanted slavery abolished everywhere. The thought of abolishing slavery in the union wasn't radical. It was normal.

    The Emancipation Proclamation did at least 2 things:

    (1) made the the confederacy fearful of slave uprisings (death of masters).

    (2) maintained the neutrality of important countries like England by appearing to free slaves.

    If England recognized the confederacy, the union's blockade of confederate ports would have been crushed by English ships.

    England was already thinking of wavering in its neutral stance on the Civil War because King Cotton was being choked out of England, and
    consequently numerous manufacturing jobs in England were lost, and English workers were getting riled up.

    Lincoln was most definitely not an Abolitionist. His main goal was to keep the union together at any costs.

    So, the Emancipation Proclamation was undoubtably, and solely political.
    Ah, no. Abolitionists were a minority of the anti-slavery population, who in turn were a minority for much of American history up to that point. The default northern position, before a north position could be found, was that of a gentleman's agreement not to disturb or discuss. Those that wanted the end of slavery discussed gradual emancipation with compensation to slaveholders. Connected with that assumption was colonization through the American Colonization Society. The Garrisonians were an extremely small segment of the population. The emancipation proclamation, through hard war strategy, goes very much beyond expectations.

    Lincoln wasn't an abolitionist, and yes, his goal was keeping the union together. Yes, it was political, but it was also a moral position for him, as he was still anti-slavery, no matter how measured his stances continued to be. It was also a fantastic rhetorical blow to the South's economy. The emancipation proclamation was still radical in many ways.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 05-21-13 at 03:13 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    So J, since giving gays the use of the one word, marriage, is most paramount to you and other gay marriage advocates, tell me why this is different from giving all students the use of the one grade A? Of all states being given the use of the name Alaska? (Lots of oil stipends are given to residents of Alaska, ya know). Of all Washington Redskins fans being given the use of Cowboy Stadium for Washington home games?

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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Ah, no. Abolitionists were a minority of the anti-slavery population, who in turn were a minority for much of American history up to that point...
    Lincoln wasn't an abolitionist, and yes, his goal was keeping the union together. Yes, it was political, but it was also a moral position for him, as he was still anti-slavery, no matter how measured his stances continued to be. It was also a fantastic rhetorical blow to the South's economy. The emancipation proclamation was still radical in many ways.
    Ah, the Republican Party, a party that was based in abolitionist ideals, was elected for 2 terms during this time. How do ya figure that happened if abolitionists weren't a majority of the union? Hum? IMO, you incorrectly think the movie, "Lincoln" is actual history.

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    How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Ah, the Republican Party, a party that was based in abolitionist ideals, was elected for 2 terms during this time. How do ya figure that happened if abolitionists weren't a majority of the union? Hum? IMO, you incorrectly think the movie, "Lincoln" is actual history.
    The Republican Party, like any party, has factions. The immediate abolitionists were a minority, even during war time. Your base knowledge on the abolitionist movement precludes your understanding of the topic. No, I have spent years being instructed by one of the foremost authorities on colonization. The movie was just a happy coincidence that finally saw a good historically-based film.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    So J, since giving gays the use of the one word, marriage, is most paramount to you and other gay marriage advocates, tell me why this is different from giving all students the use of the one grade A? Of all states being given the use of the name Alaska? (Lots of oil stipends are given to residents of Alaska, ya know). Of all Washington Redskins fans being given the use of Cowboy Stadium for Washington home games?
    This is classic false equivalence. All students have the *potential* to earn an A, whereas marriage equality is currently *impossible* for gay couples. One is earned and the other is a basic human right. Is that so hard to comprehend? There might be certain benefits to living in Alaska, but hardly anyone wants to live there, and Texans can always get a 3rd-4th fast food job to make up the difference. If Washington fans can't use the Dallas stadium, boohoo. It's not of any real consequence, and they can just start rooting for Dallas. Not like they're sober to know the difference anyway.

    It's not just the word either, as civil unions will never be equal to marriage. This is the same reason a lot of straight couples do not wish to marry but do so anyway: the actual rights that are exclusive to marriage.

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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Why don't they just do away with legal marriages altogether for both gays and straights?

    Let marriage be a religious ceremony but not legally binding.

  10. #310
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    1.) So J, since giving gays the use of the one word, marriage, is most paramount to you and other gay marriage advocates
    2.) tell me why this is different from giving all students the use of the one grade A?
    3.) Of all states being given the use of the name Alaska? (Lots of oil stipends are given to residents of Alaska, ya know).
    4.) Of all Washington Redskins fans being given the use of Cowboy Stadium for Washington home games?
    1.) easy its about equal rights, without the name its not equal
    2.) wow this is a stupid failed analogy grades are earned and not rights.
    3.) again not a right
    4.) again not right

    how old are? do you realize there wasnt one intelligent, logical, analogy you gave? they were all meaningless and non parallel. Wow you must be very young.
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