View Poll Results: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

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  • 0-5 years

    59 42.45%
  • 5-10 years

    38 27.34%
  • 10-15 years

    17 12.23%
  • 15-20 years

    6 4.32%
  • 20-25 years

    2 1.44%
  • 25+ years

    2 1.44%
  • Never

    15 10.79%
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Thread: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

  1. #251
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain View Post
    Maybe you have no respect for our founding documents.
    One may very well think that, but they would also be missing the point entirely. Perhaps instead of thinking those documents were set in stone, without interpretation, without manipulation, without whichever, you would begin to see why such a statement is nearly irrelevant. While you pontificate about the founding documents, perhaps you could be so kind as to remind us how rights are not bestowed upon us by our government, or conversely, how they aren't taken away by the same institution, through the same means?

    Perhaps I could make the argument that by understanding their fragile nature, I have shown more respect for them than you ever will.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Respect and dogmatic adherence are two completely different things.
    I wouldn't even credit them with the latter, anyhow. Libertarians tend to have this strange fascination with a past and government that never was.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  3. #253
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) thanks for your opinion but like i said SCOTUS disagrees with you and legal marriage is a right this fact wont change based on your opinion
    3.) glad you agree government needs involved
    4.) yes it is made up LMAO this as been proven many times, its made subjective BS. Your tradition are not mine and so on and so on
    5.) what this have to do with anything you said? nothing
    6.) this is nothing more than your OPINION that you are welcome to but the law and millions of other people simply disagree with you
    1 Where do you come up with this crap show me where it says marriage is a right.
    3 I say get government out
    4 Then everything is made up
    5 Progressive have destroyed marriage by making divorce easy and down playing the importance of marriage leading to all those unwed mothers.
    6 No thats a fact and most agree with me

  4. #254
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    One may very well think that, but they would also be missing the point entirely. Perhaps instead of thinking those documents were set in stone, without interpretation, without manipulation, without whichever, you would begin to see why such a statement is nearly irrelevant. While you pontificate about the founding documents, perhaps you could be so kind as to remind us how rights are not bestowed upon us by our government, or conversely, how they aren't taken away by the same institution, through the same means?

    Perhaps I could make the argument that by understanding their fragile nature, I have shown more respect for them than you ever will.
    Is there part of our rights come from our creator you dont understand? The only purpose of our government and the constitution is to protect those rights. Not to bestow them.

  5. #255
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Respect and dogmatic adherence are two completely different things.

    Maybe reading comprehension is not your strong point

    Do you recognize this?

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men
    The whole basis of the US is that our rights come from the creator. If they come from man then man can take them away.

  6. #256
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    How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain View Post
    Is there part of our rights come from our creator you dont understand? The only purpose of our government and the constitution is to protect those rights. Not to bestow them.
    Yeah, it is metaphysical leap of faith, but it was ultimately a necessary one. If that was the only purpose, why the immense number of rights that we actually have now? Surely government did it, and its still here-thus a reality. I have a right to reasonable accommodations for my disability- I sometimes use that right in numerous areas of my life. It's codified by law, it's enforced, it....exists.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

  7. #257
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gawain View Post
    Maybe reading comprehension is not your strong point

    Do you recognize this?
    I'm glad you brought that specific statement up. As it shows you're unable to even comprehend what it meant to the FFs. At the same time that statement was written the US had indentured servants, slaves, women who were not legally allowed to own property, vote etc. So as the ink used to write "all men are equal" was drying, the definition of "men" that was used was one which was extremely discriminatory and would raise flags today by most Libertarian standards. Again, dogmatic adherence is extremely different from respect. Today, no Libertarian would advocate that slaves/women constitute anything less than people and yet, that's exactly the context in which "all men" was used. So how do you reconciliate the meaning behind the original text and its current usage? Do we declare women's suffrage to be moot and ignore modern laws against slavery? Or do we realize we're in the 21st century and the FFs lived under a different time?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 05-16-13 at 09:58 PM.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  8. #258
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    How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm glad you brought that specific statement up. As it shows you're unable to even comprehend what it meant to the FFs. At the same time that statement was written the US had indentured servants, slaves, women who were not legally allowed to own property, vote etc. So even as that "all men are equal", the definition of "men" used was one which was extremely discriminatory and would raise flags today by most Libertarian standards. Again, dogmatic adherence is extremely different from respect.
    Yes, their interpretations for what was good or necessary governance was reflected in their legal or political work. Some folks ended up having less rights due to a change in interpretation or were given more or new rights. Government did it.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I'm glad you brought that specific statement up. As it shows you're unable to even comprehend what it meant to the FFs. At the same time that statement was written the US had indentured servants, slaves, women who were not legally allowed to own property, vote etc. So even as that "all men are equal", the definition of "men" used was one which was extremely discriminatory and would raise flags today by most Libertarian standards. Again, dogmatic adherence is extremely different from respect.
    You do realize that women did own property and so did blacks and voted in our first elections.

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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Yeah, it is metaphysical leap of faith, but it was ultimately a necessary one. If that was the only purpose, why the immense number of rights that we actually have now? Surely government did it, and its still here-thus a reality. I have a right to reasonable accommodations for my disability- I sometimes use that right in numerous areas of my life. It's codified by law, it's enforced, it....exists.
    If anything we have less rights now. Government can not bestow rights but they can certainly take them away. Every time the government passes a law some one loses a right. They have a made a joke of the constitution.

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