View Poll Results: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

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  • 0-5 years

    59 42.45%
  • 5-10 years

    38 27.34%
  • 10-15 years

    17 12.23%
  • 15-20 years

    6 4.32%
  • 20-25 years

    2 1.44%
  • 25+ years

    2 1.44%
  • Never

    15 10.79%
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Thread: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

  1. #121
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    It sounds like you're carrying on a conversation from another thread. I'm entirely consistent on this issue.
    Nope, I'm reading exactly what you're saying. You want to pretend that by the rule of law, as written, the federal government is empowered to dictate that gay marriage must be permitted in every state. Well, it's worse than that. You want the people who are supposed to protect the integrity of the rule of law to pretend along with you.

    In short, the result you apparently want would lawfully require a Constitutional amendment.

  2. #122
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Because they have consistently failed to recognize private contracts of many couples they didn't agree with. There have been several court cases concerning same sex couples alone where they refuse to grant a divorce and allow the couple to simply live apart unmarried because of the "principle" that they don't recognize the marriage, aka the contract. The states have shown that they don't want to recognize contracts that they consider "wrong".
    Has anyone ever taken one of these cases to a higher court after they ruled marriage is a right? I'm very interested to know if they can rule against the right of a marriage contract after they ruled marriage is a right. I don't believe they can logically.
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-10-13 at 08:51 PM.

  3. #123
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) well unless getting the certificate is some kind of process there would have to be more to it dont you think? I mean as large of a scope as marriage is there has to at least be id, age citizenship vitrifaction etc.
    Nope, two names, vows, and a witness(ceremony performer) and it's a contract. It really can be that simple.
    2.) based on what? wouldnt there have to be a regulations or rules defining how marriage works legally?
    i just dont understand how you grant all the legal benefits and rights almost 1200 alone on a federal level without the government involved.

    and yes i did misunderstand you because i thought you wanted something new or just many other contracts trying to take the place of marriage. But again how does it work without the government.
    That's why we have civil court, for when a contract is violated. As long as the contract is honored why regulate?
    3.) it seems like you are saying that government will be involved in every way except regulating who can get married (barring beastyality, intimate objects and minors etc)
    so I guess my question is, once gay marriage is legal everywhere why wont that accomplish the same thing.
    Sure, but then you still have the problem of the government running marriage, and then there is always the chance that once it's granted it can be taken away. The precedent should be government either recognizes marriage or doesn't, but they have no other compelling interest barring criminal activity.
    4.) how are they out of it and granting all the rights at the same time secondly what keeps you in check and makes sure your honor my marriage. something like visitation rights at a hospital.
    Government cannot grant rights, they exist, the only things they can do is protect or limit rights. In the case of spouse visitation such as a hospital, they can protect rights by upholding civil rights law, in the case of marriage all they can do is limit a right, what can they add for protection?

    5.) again isnt this just gonna happen soon?
    It might, but I don't see a gain through law to be a gain, I see a gain through forcing government to adhere to it's prohibitions as a true gain.

    guess ill just ask this

    what is your way going to accomplish that grant gays equal rights wont besides getting rid of the licenses that are needed in some areas
    As I have stated, they cannot do anything but protect the right if they are not empowered to decide the scope of marriage.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  4. #124
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    *Sigh.* The above is not going to disguise the fact that states are right now discriminating against people, which is why the issue is at the USSC right now. Your vague assertions of freedom as well as your lack of tangible benefits are doing nothing to support your position.
    You don't agree with what I'm saying, but I'm giving you proper contractual ways to do it.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  5. #125
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    1.)Nope, two names, vows, and a witness(ceremony performer) and it's a contract. It really can be that simple.
    2.)That's why we have civil court, for when a contract is violated. As long as the contract is honored why regulate?
    3.) Sure, but then you still have the problem of the government running marriage, and then there is always the chance that once it's granted it can be taken away. The precedent should be government either recognizes marriage or doesn't, but they have no other compelling interest barring criminal activity.
    Government cannot grant rights, they exist, the only things they can do is protect or limit rights. In the case of spouse visitation such as a hospital, they can protect rights by upholding civil rights law, in the case of marriage all they can do is limit a right, what can they add for protection?

    It might, but I don't see a gain through law to be a gain, I see a gain through forcing government to adhere to it's prohibitions as a true gain.

    As I have stated, they cannot do anything but protect the right if they are not empowered to decide the scope of marriage.
    1.) i understand if COULD be that simply but i wouldnt want it that simple, things must be verified.
    2.) civil court? no thanks i dont want something so large and important simply decided by judge judy lol
    not to mention how can civil court rule on federal rights and benefits? they are great if my plumber violates his contract but not so much other wise

    3.) well see thats where we differ i have no problem with government protecting the 1200 or so rights as long as its equal.
    4.)so my wife is in the hospital they wont let me see her you want me to go to civil court or fight for my civil rights in court?

    SOrry LMR, id rather just have civil rights fought for and won in court then make the government recognize both marriages that way.
    Just seems to flimsy and random the other way.
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  6. #126
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Nope, I'm reading exactly what you're saying. You want to pretend that by the rule of law, as written, the federal government is empowered to dictate that gay marriage must be permitted in every state. Well, it's worse than that. You want the people who are supposed to protect the integrity of the rule of law to pretend along with you.

    In short, the result you apparently want would lawfully require a Constitutional amendment.
    Did Loving vs. Virginia require an amendment?

  7. #127
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    You don't agree with what I'm saying, but I'm giving you proper contractual ways to do it.
    None of what you're saying is making me forget that in the status quo states are discriminating.

  8. #128
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Has anyone ever taken one of these cases to a higher court after they ruled marriage is a right? I'm very interested to know if they can rule against the right of a marriage contract after they ruled marriage is a right. I don't believe they can logically.
    But your proposal is taking away marriages altogether. So if that were gone, then so would be the right to marriage itself. So without marriage, then there would be no right to marriage and the states could decide just the same as they do now with same sex marriages whether or not to honor out-of-state contracts (many don't), only they could do so for certain opposite sex couples as well.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  9. #129
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by JayDubya View Post
    Nope, I'm reading exactly what you're saying. You want to pretend that by the rule of law, as written, the federal government is empowered to dictate that gay marriage must be permitted in every state. Well, it's worse than that. You want the people who are supposed to protect the integrity of the rule of law to pretend along with you.

    In short, the result you apparently want would lawfully require a Constitutional amendment.
    Because that is true. The way the laws are written the SCOTUS has already dictated that state must allow interracial couples to marry, inmates with any chance of release to marry, and those behind on their child support to marry. There is no reason why it should work differently for same sex couples.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #130
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    Re: How long till Same Sex Marriage is nationally legal in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But your proposal is taking away marriages altogether. So if that were gone, then so would be the right to marriage itself. So without marriage, then there would be no right to marriage and the states could decide just the same as they do now with same sex marriages whether or not to honor out-of-state contracts (many don't), only they could do so for certain opposite sex couples as well.
    No, marriage does not necessarily have anything to do with the state, so the right to marriage has nothing to do with the governments involvement either, but simply the right to marry who you desire. Considering the right to contract that already exists it would follow that there is a right to a marriage contract. I'm very interested to see just how the courts get around this.

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