View Poll Results: What is morality/

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  • a false concept

    5 7.04%
  • the laws of a particular society

    20 28.17%
  • the laws of God

    10 14.08%
  • the laws of nature

    9 12.68%
  • other

    27 38.03%
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Thread: morality

  1. #341
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    MoSurveyor's Avatar
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    This is not falling in line: this is agreeing that all are free to follow their own "lines". Does this freedom need to be guarded and defended? Of course.
    And 200 years down the line, IF it even makes it that far, we'd be worse off than we are now. People aren't going to follow "a very demanding [moral code]" unless you're willing to - how do you guys put it? - initiate interpersonal violence to enforce it. What you're proposing is a pipe dream, especially if it relies on a moral code to succeed.
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  2. #342
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And 200 years down the line, IF it even makes it that far, we'd be worse off than we are now. People aren't going to follow "a very demanding [moral code]" unless you're willing to - how do you guys put it? - initiate interpersonal violence to enforce it. What you're proposing is a pipe dream, especially if it relies on a moral code to succeed.
    Why granting others the same freedoms you value requires initiation of violence, I don't quite understand.

    But in practical terms, you are obviously wrong. So far, historically, the more liberal (libertarian) society has been, the more stability and success it had enjoyed.

  3. #343
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Why granting others the same freedoms you value requires initiation of violence, I don't quite understand.

    But in practical terms, you are obviously wrong. So far, historically, the more liberal (libertarian) society has been, the more stability and success it had enjoyed.
    No, I'm sure you don't or you wouldn't believe as you believe. How many times does the Bill of Rights go to court in this country? Hundreds of cases a day. Why is that, if it's so obvious?


    Really? You can cite some examples but I'd bet you're wrong. According to that theory we should all be speaking Greek.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-08-13 at 01:38 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  4. #344
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    How many times does the Bill of Rights go to court in this country? Hundreds of cases a day. Why is that, if it's so obvious? .
    And why does it win, over and over (although not always), if it is not?


    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Really? You can cite some examples but I'd bet you're wrong.
    Really? I have to elaborate?

    Compare Switzerland, Canada, America, Australia, Iceland, New Zealand, Denmark et al with any collectivist, anti-libertarian polity. Compare the progress Chile or Estonia made in the recent times with the lack thereof in Venezuela or Ukraine.

    C'mon, is this even open to discussion?

  5. #345
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    According to that theory we should all be speaking Greek.
    We kind of are.

    A few years ago, I was visiting my friends in Tallinn. A bunch of loud Russians barge into the café, swearing in their native tongue. The waitress goes: "Hey, you, speak English! This is Estonia!"

  6. #346
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Now nothing. Your freedom of choice should stop being an idiot.

    (Your freedom of choice has nothing to do with my choices).
    My freedom of choice could be rejecting your freedom of choice and vice versa.
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  7. #347
    don't panic
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    Re: morality

    I am late to the poll.

    It is an extension of our emotional survival gear. A result of a necessity for our survival as social animals that eventually allowed us to thrive as social animals.

    In a word - at its basal form - it is empathy.

    Now how that empathy came to be is a fair point to argue. Personally i think it is a combination of both our evolutionary and social heritage. We are not the only animals to possess empathy.
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  8. #348
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Incorrect. I've consistently asked for evidence of your positive claim that objective morality exists. If it's truly objective then you should have plenty of objective evidence for it's existence.

    "Can anyone prove that it doesn't exist? No." - That's either asking someone to chase teapots in orbit or it's stating the obvious, that there's never any way to prove something like this doesn't exist, which in no way promotes the case for it's existence.
    When it comes to core values, neither side should be asking the other for proof.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  9. #349
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Incorrect. I've consistently asked for evidence of your positive claim that objective morality exists. If it's truly objective then you should have plenty of objective evidence for it's existence.

    "Can anyone prove that it doesn't exist? No." - That's either asking someone to chase teapots in orbit or it's stating the obvious, that there's never any way to prove something like this doesn't exist, which in no way promotes the case for it's existence.
    there will be no proof because it in fact doesnt exists. I also have invited anybody who disagrees to bring forth factual proof. nobody has and nobody can.

    Morals are subjective and this fact will never change.
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  10. #350
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    And why does it win, over and over (although not always), if it is not?
    You're the one that invoked morality as a requirement in the New Order, not me, then you asked why laws would be required to enforce it - and I answered. You can't take a moral stance or violation to court.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Really? I have to elaborate?

    Compare Switzerland, Canada, America, Australia, Iceland, New Zealand, Denmark et al with any collectivist, anti-libertarian polity. Compare the progress Chile or Estonia made in the recent times with the lack thereof in Venezuela or Ukraine.

    C'mon, is this even open to discussion?
    Yes, you do (and it is open) because as I suspected you weren't really talking about "history" - you are talking about recent history. You're trying to use the last couple of hundred years to draw a conclusion about 10,000 years of civilization.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-08-13 at 05:46 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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