View Poll Results: What is morality/

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  • a false concept

    5 7.04%
  • the laws of a particular society

    20 28.17%
  • the laws of God

    10 14.08%
  • the laws of nature

    9 12.68%
  • other

    27 38.03%
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Thread: morality

  1. #331
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    Re: morality

    In fact, all conquering societies throughout history have done so in the name of some 'higher morality' or another: Communism claims to be a moral system as much as a scientific/tautological one, particularly in the form of Humanist Marxism.

    Max Stirner (who, unlike our modern pissant 'individualists' who are always and everywhere afraid of their own freedom) had it exactly right: "I do not step shyly back from your property, but look upon it always as my property, in which I respect nothing. Pray do the like with what you call my property!"
    I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad-redeemer (your Divine Democrat — your Hebrew Madman) and write over his thorn-torn brow, “The true prince of Evil — the king of the Slaves!”
    - Ragnar Redbeard, Might Is Right, 1890

  2. #332
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And yet many "values" of Libertarianism would throw the weak under the bus in the name of individual freedom. LOL!.
    I have seen buses crushing the weak (and the strong alike), up close and personal, thank you. They were not driven by libertarians of any sort, and their destination had nothing to do with individual freedom by any definition.

  3. #333
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    I have seen buses crushing the weak (and the strong alike), up close and personal, thank you. They were not driven by libertarians of any sort, and their destination had nothing to do with individual freedom by any definition.
    Everything I've read of Libertarianism leads me to that conclusion. Oh, I know, your "high and moral" goals say it would be otherwise but I believe you guys need to read a little more about game theory. The world will not work out the way you think it will. Even if you had things your way, the people would not fall in line with your beliefs the way you envision.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-08-13 at 06:24 AM.
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  4. #334
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Even if you had things your way, the people would not fall in line with your beliefs the way you envision.

    The people do not have to fall in line - that's the whole point.

    But never mind. "Everything you have read" leads you to (drumroll and fanfares) A CONCLUSION!
    Everything real people lived through in the last century or so - ha! - water under the bridge.

    It was a water of reddish hue - in large part because our great-great-grandfathers were also big on reading, and kind of slow on checking with reality and elementary logic.
    Last edited by Cyrylek; 05-08-13 at 06:38 AM.

  5. #335
    Mixed Government advocate
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    The people do not have to fall in line - that's the whole point.
    do you believe their should be no moral code, at all....be it religious or secular?

    as a libertarian, government has no authority to make people moral or immoral.

  6. #336
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    do you believe their should be no moral code, at all....be it religious or secular?

    as a libertarian, government has no authority to make people moral or immoral.
    This thread is growing long in tooth, but if you browse back a little, you will see details of my position on this.

    In a nutshell: There should be a moral code, and a very demanding one, based on freedom of choice as the central value.

    It's not a question of government "making" people moral or immoral: government is there to enforce and inspect, not to preach or teach.

    Liberalism (libertarianism) becomes an empty shell without its moral imperatives. Sure, one may prefer to emphasize the pragmatic side of libertarian thought: the "diversification of risk", the realization that no government, corporation or individual can have all information necessary for successful manipulation of systems as complex as human society or economy. But even then, you have a moral aspect to it: the pretended knowledge of central planners and social engineers is, basically, fraud. Combatting coercion and fraud is the essence of libertarianism.

  7. #337
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    In a nutshell: There should be a moral code, and a very demanding one, based on freedom of choice as the central value.
    Great. My freedom of choice says you have no freedom to your choice. Now what?
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    scientific by itself isn't enough of course.
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    Not all Nazis were bad people

  8. #338
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    The people do not have to fall in line - that's the whole point.
    Yes, for your extremely minimalist government to work, they do.


    PS
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    In a nutshell: There should be a moral code, and a very demanding one, based on freedom of choice as the central value.
    And in your very next post, you prove it.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 05-08-13 at 12:25 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #339
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Great. My freedom of choice says you have no freedom to your choice. Now what?
    Now nothing. Your freedom of choice should stop being an idiot.

    (Your freedom of choice has nothing to do with my choices).
    Last edited by Cyrylek; 05-08-13 at 12:33 PM.

  10. #340
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Yes, for your extremely minimalist government to work, they do.
    This is not falling in line: this is agreeing that all are free to follow their own "lines". Does this freedom need to be guarded and defended? Of course.

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