View Poll Results: What is morality/

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  • a false concept

    5 7.04%
  • the laws of a particular society

    20 28.17%
  • the laws of God

    10 14.08%
  • the laws of nature

    9 12.68%
  • other

    27 38.03%
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Thread: morality

  1. #121
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    This is true and even this basis for morality is inconsistent from one book to another. It makes it difficult to see if there ever has been a built in moral compass or one which had evolved. One the natural was perverted by teaching we lost any sense of the natural. It will never be sorted out until we all stop trying to lay our ideals on others as the only answer or way out.


    Ideally, of course..........But none of us have ever lived in a vaccuum and the fact remains that our predecessors, whether yesterday or 2,000 years ago, opted for a manner of behaviour that made a lifestyle out of "laying their ideals on others as the ultimate answer". I guess my point is: People didn't "evolve" into moral beings-----They degenerated into a raving mob of demented sidedrooling control freaks............I'm not sure I "believe" that type of affliction can be cured, not to appear overly pessimistic...................

  2. #122
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Yes they are like individuals and their moralities are all different. This would be to say morality is in flux or not a specific standard for all.
    Which is why society is about both morality and laws.
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  3. #123
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They don't? Why?

    You appear to be doing exactly what I described above. You're confusing need with morality.

    The poor man is not excluded by morality simply because he is poor and in need. The moral thing to do is help the poor man, but in turn the moral thing for the poor man to do is not to steal from everyone else to get the help he needs. Why would someone think that something is different for him?
    I'm not confusing anything. A lot of people believe breaking the law to "not die" is not immoral.
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  4. #124
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I'm not confusing anything. A lot of people believe breaking the law to "not die" is not immoral.
    The law? This is not a matter of law. Respecting the property of someone else is a moral position and to some degree not a legal one. The question you offered perhaps on accident was if it was right for the poor man to steal. It is not.

    Your position appears to be that it is right for the poor man to steal because he is need, but the fact remains need has no bearing on what he should or should not do towards others.
    Last edited by Henrin; 05-05-13 at 01:27 AM.

  5. #125
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonzai View Post
    Ideally, of course..........But none of us have ever lived in a vaccuum and the fact remains that our predecessors, whether yesterday or 2,000 years ago, opted for a manner of behaviour that made a lifestyle out of "laying their ideals on others as the ultimate answer". I guess my point is: People didn't "evolve" into moral beings-----They degenerated into a raving mob of demented sidedrooling control freaks............I'm not sure I "believe" that type of affliction can be cured, not to appear overly pessimistic...................
    I'd have to disagree. The caveman for example was all about instinct, no morals what so ever. Yes morals can be, and was, the cause of many an atrocity, but it can also...and has also....created the very country that we live in. It was morality that made our founders realize that people had rights. It was morality that ended slavery despite the obvious advantage of free labor. It was morality that ended segregation. And many other things.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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  6. #126
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Most people simply lack an understanding from what I have seen outside of some set understanding of code of conduct. They have little understanding of how to expand beyond it, so they stay to the same conduct rules they were taught all those years ago and do nothing but work of the base and turn around and call it their morality. That appears to be the extent of it from my experience of this learning exercise. What is your experience with it?
    Greta point. Most of our moral and religious teaching which on many ways goes hand and hand is done while we are young and so becomes a building block of who we are. These rules were taught by parents and grandparents or people we gave trust to. These building blocks are hard to overcome and so the many stay locked in place hardly ever able to alter these patterns of belief. They can't grow beyond these systems because their world may well be locked in this sphere. If the rules come via religion they remain in the faith and continue to have these laws reenforced and will not grow beyond this. Some will stick with the family belief and never try to swim upstream. I use and example of this kid who was gay and in a family that harbored ill will toward the idea of gay. The kid struggled over and over to try and figure out a way to tell family. He was so locked into the families belief system he hated himself for being gay. He went to a councilor and tried to find a way out. He could not grow beyond these family teachings and in the end commit suicide because he hated himself for being gay. He killed himself rather than disrupt the morality which was ingrained. For him there seemed to be no other way. Morals all seem to be learned and experiential within a family structure or school or church. One locked in they become hard to alter. My experience seems to match yours and this is a sad fact about human nature. Great question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    To the most part it is. From my experience people confuse personal desire or need with a sense of morality. Almost all law is based on this rather confused ideal be it taxes or welfare.
    Yes much of law is based on confused thinking. Taxes welfare and so on. How much of an obligation does the state have toward any individual? It there an obligation at all? How much can the beliefs of one group override another? How many need to belong to a group before their rights influence an entire culture? Years ago I had a friend who was in a wheel chairs, She would venture out and the curbs made her travels difficult. There was a goal to make corners handicap accessible. This happened. There are 8 entries to crosswalks on ever corner. All of these were being changed to accommodate wheel chairs. Whatever the cost why all eight and not just four and cut the cost in half. No it had to be all eight. She even wondered why the wasted money and she said how many people actually use wheel chairs to get around. Society seems to use poor judgement at times. If ever corner had one port it would be fine but a law passed and so the money was spent.
    Our priorities are based on some strange mix of what is law and what we call morality and kindness.
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  7. #127
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's absurd; I'm not a moron. I expect certain standards. For examples: no rape or murder. I don't expect everyone to serve as a paratrooper, acquire their masters in Europe, spend years in Africa and plan to settle there, be vegan, etc etc etc

    Don't put BS in my mouth. 99% of people CAN'T live as I do, they simply haven't the intellectual capacity and other blessings.
    But yet by the idea you present as morals this is exactly what you are saying and now you are retracting your earlier statement so which is it? Is it your first premise or not the second or will you now offer a third?
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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  8. #128
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    I'd have to disagree. The caveman for example was all about instinct, no morals what so ever. Yes morals can be, and was, the cause of many an atrocity, but it can also...and has also....created the very country that we live in. It was morality that made our founders realize that people had rights. It was morality that ended slavery despite the obvious advantage of free labor. It was morality that ended segregation. And many other things.


    The belief in "progress" or more commonly, linear time, is a direct result of the belief that monotheism was somehow a betterment vis a vis paganism..............That's what I am questioning. Maybe the human being was mistaken, maybe things only got worse...............

  9. #129
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    But yet by the idea you present as morals this is exactly what you are saying and now you are retracting your earlier statement so which is it? Is it your first premise or not the second or will you now offer a third?
    There can be basic moral standards and individual interpretations in the implementation of those standards. Everyone knows right from wrong, yet the question is largely what one can get away with (personally and otherwise). As far as your nonsense, above, you'll have to file the false dichotomy founded in ignorantly cherry-picked absolutism elsewhere.

  10. #130
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    Re: morality

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I don't believe you can use those sources interchangeably. The bible is merely a work of fiction while the other describes the world around you.
    The bibles as I see them were a means of creating law which people feared. Once you had convinced them there was a god who would punish you could control. It worked so well thousands of years later people still manage to believe this. A work of fiction i do believe and have no idea why these books still even exist. I see them written as manipulations of control. Pretty well crafted by the way. hehehe
    The flame that is between us could set every soul on fire. I would love to take that heat and let's fill the whole world with desire.
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