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Are political issues debatable?

Is politics debatable?

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mpg

mpg

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Is it obvious which side of an issue is the right side and which side is the wrong side? When you look at the conversations on this site, or any other place where politics is being discussed, ridicule is common. Almost everybody acts like they're obviously right and you have to be delusional, ignorant or malicious to disagree with them. Almost nobody is willing to agree to disagree.

IMHO, politics is extremely debatable. It's like choosing between Blues and Jazz, or between beef and pork. Two people can both be intelligent, informed, rational, open minded, pure of heart, and still have completely different politics. When you fail to recognize this, you end up saying stupid things.
 
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mpg said:
Is it obvious which side of an issue is the right side and which side is the wrong side? When you look at the conversations on this site, or any other place where politics is being discussed, ridicule is common. Almost everybody acts like they're obviously right and you have to be delusional, ignorant or malicious to disagree with them. Almost nobody is willing to agree to disagree.

IMHO, politics is extremely debatable. It's like choosing between Blues and Jazz, or between beef and pork. Two people can both be intelligent, informed, sane, pure of heart, and have completely different politics. When you fail to recognize this, you end up saying stupid things.
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This is very true as far as it goes.

Problem comes in when we start talking abouts bans etc.

My example since I'm conservative , I don't believe in this gun control BS

cause it won't solve the problem of the criminals having guns.

It ticks me off that cities cant have a manger display at Christmas time.

I'm sure that people against them mean well,but I think they're wrong.
 
Debatable maybe. Solving a problem or creating a precedence....not so much.

There can be a certain amount of give and take but, that seems to be where debate ends.
 
penn1954 said:
This is very true as far as it goes.

Problem comes in when we start talking abouts bans etc.

My example since I'm conservative , I don't believe in this gun control BS

cause it won't solve the problem of the criminals having guns.

It ticks me off that cities cant have a manger display at Christmas time.

I'm sure that people against them mean well,but I think they're wrong.
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We went to a March of Dimes event today and , for the first time in my life, I listened to the National Anthem with no flag in sight. (Austin, TX. Kremlin on the Colorado.)
 
mpg said:
Is it obvious which side of an issue is the right side and which side is the wrong side? When you look at the conversations on this site, or any other place where politics is being discussed, ridicule is common. Almost everybody acts like they're obviously right and you have to be delusional, ignorant or malicious to disagree with them. Almost nobody is willing to agree to disagree.

IMHO, politics is extremely debatable. It's like choosing between Blues and Jazz, or between beef and pork. Two people can both be intelligent, informed, rational, open minded, pure of heart, and still have completely different politics. When you fail to recognize this, you end up saying stupid things.
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It definitely is. I know I've changed or at least softened some of my positions because of discussions here. Real debate can only happen when someone is as willing to hear the other side as they are in expressing their own views. It's that which is pretty rare.
 
mpg said:
Is it obvious which side of an issue is the right side and which side is the wrong side? When you look at the conversations on this site, or any other place where politics is being discussed, ridicule is common. Almost everybody acts like they're obviously right and you have to be delusional, ignorant or malicious to disagree with them. Almost nobody is willing to agree to disagree.

IMHO, politics is extremely debatable. It's like choosing between Blues and Jazz, or between beef and pork. Two people can both be intelligent, informed, rational, open minded, pure of heart, and still have completely different politics. When you fail to recognize this, you end up saying stupid things.
Click to expand...

Politics is a matter of morals, and morals are not debatable.
 
mpg said:
Is it obvious which side of an issue is the right side and which side is the wrong side? When you look at the conversations on this site, or any other place where politics is being discussed, ridicule is common. Almost everybody acts like they're obviously right and you have to be delusional, ignorant or malicious to disagree with them. Almost nobody is willing to agree to disagree.

IMHO, politics is extremely debatable. It's like choosing between Blues and Jazz, or between beef and pork. Two people can both be intelligent, informed, rational, open minded, pure of heart, and still have completely different politics. When you fail to recognize this, you end up saying stupid things.
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I think everything in politics is debatable and probably should be debated. For a very few people it is important to know both sides of an issue before making up their mind on where they stand on that issue or how that issue will effect them. But these type of folks are in the minority, perhaps a very small minority. Most people on this site and other sites I have belonged to, it seems they wait until their political party makes up its mind as to where it stands and then they take that stance 100% regardless how it effects them personally.

I have fun on DP, it is entertainment and I never take this site too seriously. But getting into conversations with the right people here, you can learn a lot. I have and that is refreshing. Then there are those who always resort to name calling, I tend to ignore those folks.

That I guess was a tangent, but your to answer your question, yes everything dealing with politics is debatable and that is what is fun about politics. That and learning other peoples opinions.
 
X Factor said:
It definitely is. I know I've changed or at least softened some of my positions because of discussions here. Real debate can only happen when someone is as willing to hear the other side as they are in expressing their own views. It's that which is pretty rare.
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I agree. It is interesting to hear all the different opinions and with politics, we are dealing more with opinions than facts. But having respect for differing opinions and those you are talking having the same has made for me, some very interesting and entertaining nights and sometime days.
 
Perotista said:
Morals or mores, there is a difference. I think morals can enter politics, but politics is not morals.
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I beg to differ. Politics is moral principles writ large. If you leave your morals at the door when it comes to politics then you are just talking about Machiavellian animalism. Morality is what allows the use of power to transcend brute animalism and become civilized.
 
WCH said:
We went to a March of Dimes event today and , for the first time in my life, I listened to the National Anthem with no flag in sight. (Austin, TX. Kremlin on the Colorado.)
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You'd think a flag wouldn't upset the natives but then what I've read

about Austin theres a bunch of flaming libs. Wish it weren't so.
 
Guy Incognito said:
I beg to differ. Politics is moral principles writ large. If you leave your morals at the door when it comes to politics then you are just talking about Machiavellian animalism. Morality is what allows the use of power to transcend brute animalism and become civilized.
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Okay, I can buy that to a certain extent, probably to most extents. . But who determines what is or isn't moral? Society, government, religion, customs handed down, parents? Isn't something that we might deem moral here in the states be viewed as immoral in Asia or Africa or someplace else? Some equate morality to ethical conduct, the way we practice politics here, for the most part there is nothing ethical about it.
 
penn1954 said:
You'd think a flag wouldn't upset the natives but then what I've read

about Austin theres a bunch of flaming libs. Wish it weren't so.
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Yep [I tried to sneak that in]
:lol:

Now I'm not sure who they were playing the National Anthem for??
 
Once they are settled and decided, facts are not debatable. What conclusions to draw from those facts, and what actions to take based on those conclusions, are.
 
Of course most issues are debatable...
 
mpg said:
Is it obvious which side of an issue is the right side and which side is the wrong side?
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No. Or rather yes, but it's all a matter of opinion. Which side of an issue is right and which side is wrong is very obvious to some people, but that's only their opinion, and it's obvious that others don't share it.

mpg said:
When you look at the conversations on this site, or any other place where politics is being discussed, ridicule is common. Almost everybody acts like they're obviously right and you have to be delusional, ignorant or malicious to disagree with them. Almost nobody is willing to agree to disagree.
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That's just people. It's not just politics that people act that way about, it's lots of things.

mpg said:
IMHO, politics is extremely debatable. It's like choosing between Blues and Jazz, or between beef and pork. Two people can both be intelligent, informed, rational, open minded, pure of heart, and still have completely different politics. When you fail to recognize this, you end up saying stupid things.
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Yep, but no one is immune to doing or saying stupid things sometimes.
 
It is not as much of an issue of if they can be debated, it is an issue of the individuals.

Most people do not debate, they argue. They have no interest in trying to reach a consensus view or in trying to get to understand each side of the issue, they are trying to beat somebody until they agree with them.

I have no problem in most cases going "I believe in A, you believe in B", then parting with an understanding of their point of view. But all to often, I find that "You believe in A, and I am going to beat this subject to death until you agree with me that B is correct" is what most people are actually doing.

This is why I generally stay out of "debates" over subjects of personal opinion, and stick to factual and historical issues.

After all, there is little debate that George Washington was the first President.

Unless somebody is going to claim I was wrong, and that the first President was really Samuel Huntington.
 
mpg said:
Is it obvious which side of an issue is the right side and which side is the wrong side? When you look at the conversations on this site, or any other place where politics is being discussed, ridicule is common. Almost everybody acts like they're obviously right and you have to be delusional, ignorant or malicious to disagree with them. Almost nobody is willing to agree to disagree.

IMHO, politics is extremely debatable. It's like choosing between Blues and Jazz, or between beef and pork. Two people can both be intelligent, informed, rational, open minded, pure of heart, and still have completely different politics. When you fail to recognize this, you end up saying stupid things.
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It depends on the topic. If you're debating the merits of different philosophies, then yes, it is debatable because that's subjective. If you are debating the effectiveness of education policies, then it's usually not debatable because effectiveness is usually verifiable through research and thus, objective.

The problem is that people get those two situations mixed up. People treat subjective topics as objective and treat objective topics as subjective. This is where people calling either other delusional, ignorant and other things tends to come in.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
If you are debating the effectiveness of education policies, then it's usually not debatable because effectiveness is usually verifiable through research and thus, objective.
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That type of debate is far from typical. A more typical debate is debating the effectiveness of a policy before it's been tried, when there's no data, and simultaneously trying to decide if it justifies the cost.





ThePlayDrive said:
The problem is that people get those two situations mixed up. People treat subjective topics as objective and treat objective topics as subjective. This is where people calling either other delusional, ignorant and other things tends to come in.
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I agree. When people start thinking that their opinion is provable rather than debatable, they'll try to debate any documented facts that support the opposing side of the issue.
 
mpg said:
That type of debate is far from typical. A more typical debate is debating the effectiveness of a policy before it's been tried, when there's no data, and simultaneously trying to decide if it justifies the cost.
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Eh, that's typical in my experience. Many of the debates I've been involved in have revolved around topics for which there is verifiable data to support people's points. There are a lot of debates where experimental, entirely untested policies are being discussed, but there are also many where research is available.

I agree. When people start thinking that their opinion is provable rather than debatable, they'll try to debate any documented facts that support the opposing side of the issue.
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Yeah, that's never a good look.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Politics is a matter of morals, and morals are not debatable.
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Morals are very debatable, less than 100 years ago, many would have said it was immoral to allow women to have a political voice. At one point in history it would have been immoral to be christian.
 
Oozlefinch said:
...Most people do not debate, they argue. They have no interest in trying to reach a consensus view or in trying to get to understand each side of the issue, they are trying to beat somebody until they agree with them...
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QFT. I think we as a society now tend to turn any issue into an "us against them" fight. Either you are a christian, gun toting republican, or you are a commie heathen scumbag, that kind of stuff. Really what we are doing is taking everything and turning it into a black or white argument, when really almost all issues are grey. All this has been accomplishing for us is to completely polarize everything to the point where progress is not possible and decay becomes the norm.
 
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