View Poll Results: Is politics debatable?

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  • very few issues are debatable

    1 4.35%
  • most issues are not debatable

    1 4.35%
  • most issues are debatable

    13 56.52%
  • very few issues are not debatable

    8 34.78%
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Thread: Are political issues debatable?

  1. #21
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    Re: Are political issues debatable?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    Is it obvious which side of an issue is the right side and which side is the wrong side? When you look at the conversations on this site, or any other place where politics is being discussed, ridicule is common. Almost everybody acts like they're obviously right and you have to be delusional, ignorant or malicious to disagree with them. Almost nobody is willing to agree to disagree.

    IMHO, politics is extremely debatable. It's like choosing between Blues and Jazz, or between beef and pork. Two people can both be intelligent, informed, rational, open minded, pure of heart, and still have completely different politics. When you fail to recognize this, you end up saying stupid things.
    It depends on the topic. If you're debating the merits of different philosophies, then yes, it is debatable because that's subjective. If you are debating the effectiveness of education policies, then it's usually not debatable because effectiveness is usually verifiable through research and thus, objective.

    The problem is that people get those two situations mixed up. People treat subjective topics as objective and treat objective topics as subjective. This is where people calling either other delusional, ignorant and other things tends to come in.

  2. #22
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    Re: Are political issues debatable?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    If you are debating the effectiveness of education policies, then it's usually not debatable because effectiveness is usually verifiable through research and thus, objective.
    That type of debate is far from typical. A more typical debate is debating the effectiveness of a policy before it's been tried, when there's no data, and simultaneously trying to decide if it justifies the cost.





    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    The problem is that people get those two situations mixed up. People treat subjective topics as objective and treat objective topics as subjective. This is where people calling either other delusional, ignorant and other things tends to come in.
    I agree. When people start thinking that their opinion is provable rather than debatable, they'll try to debate any documented facts that support the opposing side of the issue.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  3. #23
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    Re: Are political issues debatable?

    Quote Originally Posted by mpg View Post
    That type of debate is far from typical. A more typical debate is debating the effectiveness of a policy before it's been tried, when there's no data, and simultaneously trying to decide if it justifies the cost.
    Eh, that's typical in my experience. Many of the debates I've been involved in have revolved around topics for which there is verifiable data to support people's points. There are a lot of debates where experimental, entirely untested policies are being discussed, but there are also many where research is available.

    I agree. When people start thinking that their opinion is provable rather than debatable, they'll try to debate any documented facts that support the opposing side of the issue.
    Yeah, that's never a good look.

  4. #24
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    Re: Are political issues debatable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Incognito View Post
    Politics is a matter of morals, and morals are not debatable.
    Morals are very debatable, less than 100 years ago, many would have said it was immoral to allow women to have a political voice. At one point in history it would have been immoral to be christian.

  5. #25
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    Re: Are political issues debatable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oozlefinch View Post
    ...Most people do not debate, they argue. They have no interest in trying to reach a consensus view or in trying to get to understand each side of the issue, they are trying to beat somebody until they agree with them...
    QFT. I think we as a society now tend to turn any issue into an "us against them" fight. Either you are a christian, gun toting republican, or you are a commie heathen scumbag, that kind of stuff. Really what we are doing is taking everything and turning it into a black or white argument, when really almost all issues are grey. All this has been accomplishing for us is to completely polarize everything to the point where progress is not possible and decay becomes the norm.

  6. #26
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    Re: Are political issues debatable?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    QFT. I think we as a society now tend to turn any issue into an "us against them" fight. Either you are a christian, gun toting republican, or you are a commie heathen scumbag, that kind of stuff. Really what we are doing is taking everything and turning it into a black or white argument, when really almost all issues are grey. All this has been accomplishing for us is to completely polarize everything to the point where progress is not possible and decay becomes the norm.
    This is nothing new, that kind of viewpoint has been around since the beginning of time.

    War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. - John Stuart Mill

  7. #27
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    Re: Are political issues debatable?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenc View Post
    QFT. I think we as a society now tend to turn any issue into an "us against them" fight. Either you are a christian, gun toting republican, or you are a commie heathen scumbag, that kind of stuff. Really what we are doing is taking everything and turning it into a black or white argument, when really almost all issues are grey. All this has been accomplishing for us is to completely polarize everything to the point where progress is not possible and decay becomes the norm.
    People get addicted to the morally superior feeling they get when they look at things as good vs. evil, rather than sensible vs. sensible.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

  8. #28
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    Are political issues debatable?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    It depends on the topic. If you're debating the merits of different philosophies, then yes, it is debatable because that's subjective. If you are debating the effectiveness of education policies, then it's usually not debatable because effectiveness is usually verifiable through research and thus, objective.

    The problem is that people get those two situations mixed up. People treat subjective topics as objective and treat objective topics as subjective. This is where people calling either other delusional, ignorant and other things tends to come in.
    Eh, not really. Any published research is still open for debate from methodology to interpretation made by the authors or interpretation by the person using said evidence in a debate. If ones debate opponent has legitimate criticisms of the research or how the research is being used to make a certain point then it is not enough to say its "undebatable" because its published.

    Moreover, things aren't "true" in science, they're merely likely and that difference is more and more stark as you move away from something like experimental physics to social sciences.

  9. #29
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    Re: Are political issues debatable?

    The ridicule has little to do with the issues, and everything to do with the arguments that one presents.

    Often, people present arguments for their views which are worthy of ridicule, even if the issue itself remains debatable.

    Example: Whether or not guns should be banned could be considered a "debatable" issue, but if someone's argument in that debate is "Guns are bad, mmmkay" or "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" their argument deserves scorn and ridicule.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  10. #30
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    Re: Are political issues debatable?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    The ridicule has little to do with the issues, and everything to do with the arguments that one presents.

    Often, people present arguments for their views which are worthy of ridicule, even if the issue itself remains debatable.
    The failure to acknowledge that the issue is debatable, is what causes people to make ridiculous arguments. They think that they can prove they are right.
    If you expect people to be rational, you aren't being rational.

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