View Poll Results: An Atheist President?

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  • Yes

    21 40.38%
  • No

    11 21.15%
  • Indifferent

    20 38.46%
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Thread: An Atheist President?

  1. #141
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    Re: An Atheist President?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    The vast majority of American politicians who make public their religious affiliation profess Christianity.
    A vast majority politicians of American may "profess christianity",but knowing American politics,I have sneaky suspicion that a vast majority of that vast majority ended up (or will end up) in "The Other Place".I've catered many political events throughout the years (Republican,Democrat,even a couple of Libertarian),gotten to know quite a few politicians myself,and if there is anything I've learned about them,is that if they are around you,keep a close watch on your wallet,your wife ,and your freedoms.
    Sorry to let the cat out the bag,my fellow GOP-ers,but Republican politicians are just as sleazy's the Democrat Politicians.Libertarian Politicians are no exception..

  2. #142
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    Re: An Atheist President?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    which half is which?
    Oh, that's simple.

    The Old Testament is harsh, authoritarian and punitive. The New Testament is all love and sweetness.

    For example, when you see in Deuteronomy (20:15): " in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes. But you shall utterly destroy them, the Hittite and the Amorite, the Canaanite and the Perizzite, the Hivite and the Jebusite, as the LORD your God has commanded you…" - that's pretty mean.

    But when Jesus says "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law" (Matthew 10:34) - read as an invitation to hold hands and sing kumbayah.

  3. #143
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    Re: An Atheist President?

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Please explain more. My Biblical expertise is pretty limited. So which half is which?
    There are two halves, the Old and New Testaments.

    The Old is pre-Jesus. In it, god is jealous and wrathful. He makes a variety of cameo appearances, and generally terrorizes people when he does. This is also the part of the Bible where The Law is handed down -- rules for everything from diet to slavery to capital punishment.

    The New is where Jesus comes in. Jesus, in a nutshell, teaches that everybody is a dirty rotten sinner, everybody needs forgiveness and mercy, and he's the only way to heaven. He challenges the entire socio-political structure of Israel, and the power players end up wanting him dead as a result. Jesus allows himself to be executed as a sacrifice for the sins of the world. This is important because in the Old, animals were sacrificed to cover up the sins of man, whereas in the New the blood of the only truly innocent man was sacrificed to wash away all sins for all time for all those who believe in the power of said sacrifice. This was Jesus replacing the old covenant between man and god.

    Everything else in the New consists of what Jesus' Apostles did after that, and then the revelation of how the world will end.

    I'm sure I missed a lot, but that's The 5-Minute Bible for Heretics Like Us.

    Christians are supposed to stick to the New. Jesus replaced the covenant between man and god in the Old, and made it abundantly clear through his public acts that he was replacing the law, since the new paradigm he was bringing into the world was that man was to be saved by faith in him rather than obedience to the law.

    Nevertheless, the Old is often cited by those with a political agenda, especially where homosexuality is concerned. This is where your perception about some laws being ignored and others revered comes in, because these same "Christians" don't hold to the dietary rules or really any of the other rules in the Old (except maybe the Commandments).

    Does that clear it up?
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  4. #144
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    Re: An Atheist President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verthaine View Post
    A vast majority politicians of American may "profess christianity",but knowing American politics,I have sneaky suspicion that a vast majority of that vast majority ended up (or will end up) in "The Other Place".I've catered many political events throughout the years (Republican,Democrat,even a couple of Libertarian),gotten to know quite a few politicians myself,and if there is anything I've learned about them,is that if they are around you,keep a close watch on your wallet,your wife ,and your freedoms.
    Sorry to let the cat out the bag,my fellow GOP-ers,but Republican politicians are just as sleazy's the Democrat Politicians.Libertarian Politicians are no exception..
    Absolutely true.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  5. #145
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    Re: An Atheist President?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Jesus replaced the covenant between man and god in the Old, and made it abundantly clear through his public acts that he was replacing the law.
    And just as clear, through his public speaking, that he was not:

    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

    It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    Nevertheless, the Old is often cited by those with a political agenda, especially where homosexuality is concerned.
    But the New Testament is no less "anti-gay".

    "...the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity" (Romans 1:27)

    "Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 1:7)

  6. #146
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    Re: An Atheist President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    And just as clear, through his public speaking, that he was not:

    "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

    It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)
    You're talking about what amounts to a legal technicality. This is the language used to prevent anyone from implying that the old law was anything less than perfect. God didn't change and become any more merciful than he is now, har har har. However you phrase it, where the rubber meets the road, faith in Christ took the place of perfect obedience to a long and complicated legal code. Faith in Christ made forgiveness of sins possible, whereas the law was intended to prevent sin in the first place and cover it up when it occurred. Otherwise, there'd be a lot less bacon in America.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    But the New Testament is no less "anti-gay".

    "...the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity" (Romans 1:27)

    "Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire" (Jude 1:7)
    It is significantly less anti-gay. The best any homophobe can come up with are a few unrelated quotes (many of which don't even address the subject in any sense that can be reasonably described as direct or specific), none of which are from Gospels, none of which were said by Jesus.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

  7. #147
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    Re: An Atheist President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Wouldn't an atheist president be the ideal choice to lead the country? In fact, shouldn't we require our elected officials to forsake religion in order to better serve us and uphold the separation of Church and State?
    A persons religious beliefs should not be a factor in their ability to be president. I think the country is slowly grasping that opinion, so maybe someday an atheist would be president, but I would not like to see that exclusively and I am an atheist.
    "Being President doesn't change who you are, it reveals who you are"

  8. #148
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    Re: An Atheist President?

    I'm indifferent because religion or lack thereof is irrelevant to me.

    I would never vote for someone like Santorum due to his ideology of trying to force his religion on all of us. Likewise, I wouldn't vote for any Atheist that tried to discredit others beliefs as a presidential candidate (and I am an Atheist).
    Libertarian and Atheist...wow I'm a hated man.

  9. #149
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    Re: An Atheist President?

    Quote Originally Posted by TacticalEvilDan View Post
    faith in Christ took the place of perfect obedience to a long and complicated legal code.
    It spread mostly among the peoples that had no idea about the code in the first place. Jews are still busy elongating and complicating the Law (the Halakha includes rabbinical decrees and tradition). To the Hellenistic world, Christianity brought a whole bunch of irrational (and often harmful) restrictions and prohibitions previously unheard of.

    Actual moral codes of real-life Christians had varied greatly, depending on time and place, and never could be reduced to the Bible, whichever part. But it would be very odd to deny the formative influence of the Old Testament: the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the Christian (and Muslim) God, there's no other. Pertaining to morality, it means that whatever God had ordered or advised His Chosen People to do in the OT was "right", "good". Which creates huge problems, if we read the texts literally. The Son (avatar, projection, whatever) of the same God talking about love and forgiveness of our sins does nothing to alleviate those problems.
    Last edited by Cyrylek; 05-05-13 at 02:45 PM.

  10. #150
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    Re: An Atheist President?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    It spread mostly among the peoples that had no idea about the code in the first place. Jews are still busy elongating and complicating the Law (the Halakha includes rabbinical decrees and tradition).
    That's because the Jews didn't embrace Jesus as their Immanuel, not because they were familiar with the law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    Actual moral codes of real-life Christians had varied greatly, depending on time and place, and never could reduced to the Bible, whichever part.
    Yeah, they never could keep it as simple as Jesus instructed, could they?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    But it would be very odd to deny the formative influence of the Old Testament: the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is the Christian (and Muslim) God, there's no other. Pertaining to morality, it means that whatever God ordered or advised His Chosen People to do in the OT is "right", "good". Which creates huge problems, if we read the texts literally. The Son (avatar, projection, whatever) of the same God talking about love and forgiveness of our sins does nothing to alleviate those problems.
    Well, either it's about what the Bible says, or it's about trying to insert your understanding of the historical context into what the Bible says If we're going with context, then we should remember that at the time homosexuality was scorned, the Jews were trying to survive as a people while enslaved in a foreign land, so sex which didn't result in reproduction was strongly discouraged.
    I'm already gearing up for Finger Vote 2014.

    Just for reference, means my post was a giant steaming pile of sarcasm.

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