View Poll Results: Should society dissuade incompetent people from producing children?

Voters
24. You may not vote on this poll
  • No, reproduction is sacrosanct, people have absolute freedom to reproduce and make others raise them

    11 45.83%
  • Yes/no, mandatory reproductive control for only the most severely/permanently disabled

    4 16.67%
  • Yes/no, offer money for sterilization and/or long-term birth control measures

    8 33.33%
  • Yes/no, mandatory birth control and/or sterilization for active severe substance addicts

    4 16.67%
  • Yes, require some sort of permit for having children

    2 8.33%
  • Sort of, implement two-child policy

    2 8.33%
  • Other (explain)

    4 16.67%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Should society dissuade people from reproducing children they can't raise? How?

  1. #41
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    Re: Should society dissuade people from reproducing children they can't raise? How?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    It's a shame you're so uptight about insulting the nature of your "choices" when from the get-go of this thread you insulted the intelligence of anyone with more than two working braincells. Did you think the "choices" you proposed would spark a discussion on this topic?


    Look at the replies this thread has gotten so far from both sides of the aisle. The best part is that your perspective is so ridiculously narrow that you fail to even recognize that in the overwhelming majority of the world people continue to have children even if they don't have welfare programs available.
    I recognize what the majority does, and what the majority thinks. This happens to be a topic in which I challenge the majority opinion. Seems to get you a bit worked up...

    But hey, as long as you get to complain about being "insulted".
    Just pointing out that you went straight after me, not the question being posed.

  2. #42
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    Re: Should society dissuade people from reproducing children they can't raise? How?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Being able to produce without someone violating your body is liberty.
    Actions have consequences. If you breed without being able to care for the resulting child, why should anyone be surprised when there are serious negative consequences for their lack of responsibility?
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  3. #43
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    Re: Should society dissuade people from reproducing children they can't raise? How?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Try to suspend auto-outrage before answering and responding.

    Every state has an administrative agency charged with temporarily suspending, and/or petitioning for extinguishment of, parental rights if those parents neglect their children's basic needs.

    The act of producing a child generates a legal obligation to provide for its basic needs. Failure to do so can result in the extinguishment of parental rights. Therefore, a person who is fertile but otherwise has demonstrable inability to provide basic minimum care to the child is capable creating a financial and legal liability that it can transfer onto others without their consent.

    Why do taxpayers have to stand by and watch as people produce liabilities that they can shovel off onto others? How is this justifiable, and what should be done about it?
    because we live in a society that respects the rights of the individual.

    there may be downsides to that at times - sometimes serious downsides .... but a society that determines who is/isn't allowed to breed would not be a society that many of us would want to live in.

    BTW, my concerns over inadequate parenting do not relate to taxpayer dollars, but the welfare of children. I think that is a FAR MORE important consideration.
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  4. #44
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    Re: Should society dissuade people from reproducing children they can't raise? How?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Try to suspend auto-outrage before answering and responding.

    Every state has an administrative agency charged with temporarily suspending, and/or petitioning for extinguishment of, parental rights if those parents neglect their children's basic needs.

    The act of producing a child generates a legal obligation to provide for its basic needs. Failure to do so can result in the extinguishment of parental rights. Therefore, a person who is fertile but otherwise has demonstrable inability to provide basic minimum care to the child is capable creating a financial and legal liability that it can transfer onto others without their consent.

    Why do taxpayers have to stand by and watch as people produce liabilities that they can shovel off onto others? How is this justifiable, and what should be done about it?
    This is the wrong question. We need more kids, not fewer. Society needs to find a way to encourage people to be responsible parents, not discourage them from becoming parents.

  5. #45
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    Re: Should society dissuade people from reproducing children they can't raise? How?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Children suffer when they're put into the foster care system too, but we do that (we have to) when staying in the home is significantly worse.

    Again my question arises, when parental rights have been terminated and children removed from the home, they can keep having babies. Why do we stand by idly in those scenarios?
    I don't think we stand by idly, but I don't think we're the Chinese either. Not to go off on a tangent, but if a woman's body is her's and she alone has sole authority over whether or not she has an abortion then it stands to reason that she alone has sole authority over whether or not she becomes pregnant. I suppose you could in some way coerce her into sterilization through financial incentives but....
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  6. #46
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    Re: Should society dissuade people from reproducing children they can't raise? How?

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't think we stand by idly, but I don't think we're the Chinese either. Not to go off on a tangent, but if a woman's body is her's and she alone has sole authority over whether or not she has an abortion then it stands to reason that she alone has sole authority over whether or not she becomes pregnant. I suppose you could in some way coerce her into sterilization through financial incentives but....
    I think financial incentives for sterilisation would still upset those whose focus is on taxpayer dollars being wasted ....
    Every political good carried to the extreme must be productive of evil.

  7. #47
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    Re: Should society dissuade people from reproducing children they can't raise? How?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    I think people that have children that they can't financially support should be sterilized immediately and that child removed from their home
    And you claim to be "Libertarian - Right"?

  8. #48
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    Re: Should society dissuade people from reproducing children they can't raise? How?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhIsee.Then View Post
    And you claim to be "Libertarian - Right"?
    Ever hear of personal responsibility? Rights come with inherent responsibilities and actions have consequences.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  9. #49
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    Re: Should society dissuade people from reproducing children they can't raise? How?

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    I think financial incentives for sterilisation would still upset those whose focus is on taxpayer dollars being wasted ....
    I'd personally prefer to fund sterilization with tax dollars, than a lifetime of rearing children.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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  10. #50
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    Re: Should society dissuade people from reproducing children they can't raise? How?

    Quote Originally Posted by marywollstonecraft View Post
    because we live in a society that respects the rights of the individual.
    For one thing, no right is sacrosanct (with the possible exception of this one). We take away people's lives, liberties and property if it is warranted, always respecting due process and going through a court of law, and with the idea that individual rights should be maximized at all times and restricted or suspended only when most necessary.

    For another thing, this particular individual right creates another individual that inherently has rights. As a function of respecting individual rights, we usually recognize that one person's exercise of his/her rights cannot trample another person's rights. So what I think we are doing is overvaluing one right (to reproduce) even to the blatant detriment of the new individual's rights, in some cases.

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