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Thread: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialEngineer View Post
    I approve. I also approve of the death penalty for theft, when the theft totals up to more than the average lifetime GDP per capita in that society. Basically, if you steal more than the average person earns in a lifetime, you should die. I'd imagine the economy would be much less corrupted by manipulators and crooks if this was the law of the land.
    anytime you make a crime less than murder a death penalty offense, you give the perpetrator absolutely no reason NOT to kill his victim



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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    anytime you make a crime less than murder a death penalty offense, you give the perpetrator absolutely no reason NOT to kill his victim
    If everyone that committed murder automatically received the death penalty, you'd be correct. The vast majority of murderers don't, even in death penalty states.

    If what you say is true, then why does every person that commits murder in Texas not try to kill the cops that arrest them as well? My guess is that killing someone is an automatic 20-to-life, while killing the cops that are trying to arrest you because you killed someone is pretty much an automatic appointment with the needle (usually with cuts to the front of the line).

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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialEngineer View Post
    If everyone that committed murder automatically received the death penalty, you'd be correct. The vast majority of murderers don't, even in death penalty states.

    If what you say is true, then why does every person that commits murder in Texas not try to kill the cops that arrest them as well? My guess is that killing someone is an automatic 20-to-life, while killing the cops that are trying to arrest you because you killed someone is pretty much an automatic appointment with the needle.
    that doesn't refute my point ask any prosecutor who handles DP cases. or read the ONION FIELD

    its handles this issue



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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that doesn't refute my point ask any prosecutor who handles DP cases. or read the ONION FIELD

    its handles this issue
    I find your assertion that every prosecutor that's ever handled a death penalty case agrees with your assertion a bit dubious, but let's say for the sake of argument that you're correct. I'll even cede the point that the death penalty adds an extra incentive for murder to eliminate witnesses.

    So in your opinion, is it more likely that all rapists would continue to rape, and simply add murder in addition to their crimes to avoid being charged with rape, or that people would avoid being charged with rape by not committing rape in the first place? I would think that there would be a mix of the two, but I'd be interested in your opinion as to which would be more prevalent.

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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialEngineer View Post
    I find your assertion that every prosecutor that's ever handled a death penalty case agrees with your assertion a bit dubious, but let's say for the sake of argument that you're correct. I'll even cede the point that the death penalty adds an extra incentive for murder to eliminate witnesses.

    So in your opinion, is it more likely that all rapists would continue to rape, and simply add murder in addition to their crimes to avoid being charged with rape, or that people would avoid being charged with rape by not committing rape in the first place? I would think that there would be a mix of the two, but I'd be interested in your opinion as to which would be more prevalent.
    The DP has been proven not to be a deterrent. Yes, I think that if someone is afraid they're going to get the death penalty for rape, then they will kill the victim AND any potential witnesses.

    Ten points as to why the death penalty is ineffective and a waste of money.

    NCADP - The National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty

    1. Executions are carried out at staggering cost to taxpayers.

    It costs far more to execute a person than to keep him or her in prison for life. A New Jersey Policy Perspectives report concluded that when the state had the death penalty, it cost New Jersey taxpayers $253 million since 1983, a figure that is over and above the costs that would have been incurred had the state utilized a sentence of life without parole instead of death. (New Jersey abolished capital punishment in December 2007).

    "From a strictly financial perspective, it is hard to reach a conclusion other than this: New Jersey taxpayers over the last 23 years have paid more than a quarter billion dollars on a capital punishment system that has executed no one," the report concluded.

    Michael Murphy, former Morris County, NJ prosecutor, remarked: "If you were to ask me how $11 million a year could best protect the people of New Jersey, I would tell you by giving the law enforcement community more resources. I'm not interested in hypothetical or abstractions; I want the tools for law enforcement to do their job, and $11 million can buy a lot of tools.

    Learn More

    2. Capital punishment does not deter crime.

    Scientific studies have consistently failed to demonstrate that executions deter people from committing crime any more than long prison sentences. Moreover, states without the death penalty have much lower murder rates. The South accounts for 80% of U.S. executions, and has the highest regional murder rate.

    Learn More

    3. States are unable to prevent accidental executions of innocent people.

    The wrongful execution of an innocent person is an injustice that can never be rectified. Since the reinstatement of the death penalty, at least 138 men and women have been released from death row nationally some only minutes away from execution. Moreover, in the past two years, evidence has come to light that indicates that four men may have been wrongfully executed in recent years for crimes they did not commit - an error rate that is appalling and unacceptable when talking about life and death.

    4. Race plays a role in determining who lives and who dies.

    Since 1977, blacks and whites have been the victims of murders in almost equal numbers, yet 80% of the people executed in that period were convicted of murders involving white victims.

    Learn More

    5. The death penalty is applied at random.

    Politics, quality of legal counsel, and the jurisdiction in which a crime is committed are more often the determining factors in a death penalty case than the facts of the crime itself. The death penalty is a lethal lottery: of the 22,000 homicides committed every year, approximately 150 people are sentenced to death.

    6. Capital punishment goes against almost every religion.

    Although isolated passages of religious scripture have been quoted in support of the death penalty, almost all religious groups in the United States regard executions as immoral.

    7. The U.S. is keeping company with notorious human rights abusers.

    The vast majority of countries in Western Europe, North America and South America more than 128 nations worldwide have abandoned capital punishment in law or in practice. Year after year, only three countries execute more prisoners than the United States China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

    8. Millions of dollars could be diverted to helping the families of murder victims.

    Many family members who have lost love ones to murder feel that the death penalty will not heal their wounds nor end their pain, and the extended process prior to executions can prolong the agony experienced by the family. Funds now being used for the costly process of executions could be used to help families put their lives back together through counseling, restitution, crime victim hotlines, and other services addressing their needs.

    9. Bad lawyers are a persistent problem.

    Perhaps the most important factor in determining whether a defendant will receive the death penalty is the quality of the representation he or she is provided. Almost all defendants in capital cases cannot afford their own attorneys. In many cases, the appointed attorneys are overworked, underpaid, or lacking the trial experience required for death penalty cases. There have even been instances in which lawyers appointed to a death case were so inexperienced that they were completely unprepared for the sentencing phase of the trial. Other appointed attorneys have slept through parts of the trial, or arrived at the court under the influence of alcohol.

    10. Life without parole is a sensible alternative to the death penalty

    Almost every state in the U.S. now has life in prison without parole. Unlike decades ago, a sentence of life without parole generally means exactly what it says convicts locked away in prison until they die. Unlike the death penalty, a sentence of life in prison without parole allows mistakes to be corrected or new evidence to come to light.
    Last edited by ChrisL; 05-06-13 at 11:33 PM.

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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The DP has been proven not to be a deterrent. Yes, I think that if someone is afraid they're going to get the death penalty for rape, then they will kill the victim AND any potential witnesses.
    that's been my experience and the experience of several top DP prosecutors I know. Hamilton County Ohio (Joe Deters, before him MIke Allen) are legendary for getting DP convictions



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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    The DP has been proven not to be a deterrent. Yes, I think that if someone is afraid they're going to get the death penalty for rape, then they will kill the victim AND any potential witnesses.

    Ten points as to why the death penalty is ineffective and a waste of money.

    NCADP - The National Coalition to Abolish the Death Penalty

    1. Executions are carried out at staggering cost to taxpayers.

    It costs far more to execute a person than to keep him or her in prison for life. A New Jersey Policy Perspectives report concluded that when the state had the death penalty, it cost New Jersey taxpayers $253 million since 1983, a figure that is over and above the costs that would have been incurred had the state utilized a sentence of life without parole instead of death. (New Jersey abolished capital punishment in December 2007).

    "From a strictly financial perspective, it is hard to reach a conclusion other than this: New Jersey taxpayers over the last 23 years have paid more than a quarter billion dollars on a capital punishment system that has executed no one," the report concluded.

    Michael Murphy, former Morris County, NJ prosecutor, remarked: "If you were to ask me how $11 million a year could best protect the people of New Jersey, I would tell you by giving the law enforcement community more resources. I'm not interested in hypothetical or abstractions; I want the tools for law enforcement to do their job, and $11 million can buy a lot of tools.

    Learn More

    2. Capital punishment does not deter crime.

    Scientific studies have consistently failed to demonstrate that executions deter people from committing crime any more than long prison sentences. Moreover, states without the death penalty have much lower murder rates. The South accounts for 80% of U.S. executions, and has the highest regional murder rate.

    Learn More

    3. States are unable to prevent accidental executions of innocent people.

    The wrongful execution of an innocent person is an injustice that can never be rectified. Since the reinstatement of the death penalty, at least 138 men and women have been released from death row nationally – some only minutes away from execution. Moreover, in the past two years, evidence has come to light that indicates that four men may have been wrongfully executed in recent years for crimes they did not commit - an error rate that is appalling and unacceptable when talking about life and death.

    4. Race plays a role in determining who lives and who dies.

    Since 1977, blacks and whites have been the victims of murders in almost equal numbers, yet 80% of the people executed in that period were convicted of murders involving white victims.

    Learn More

    5. The death penalty is applied at random.

    Politics, quality of legal counsel, and the jurisdiction in which a crime is committed are more often the determining factors in a death penalty case than the facts of the crime itself. The death penalty is a lethal lottery: of the 22,000 homicides committed every year, approximately 150 people are sentenced to death.

    6. Capital punishment goes against almost every religion.

    Although isolated passages of religious scripture have been quoted in support of the death penalty, almost all religious groups in the United States regard executions as immoral.

    7. The U.S. is keeping company with notorious human rights abusers.

    The vast majority of countries in Western Europe, North America and South America — more than 128 nations worldwide — have abandoned capital punishment in law or in practice. Year after year, only three countries execute more prisoners than the United States – China, Iran, and Saudi Arabia.

    8. Millions of dollars could be diverted to helping the families of murder victims.

    Many family members who have lost love ones to murder feel that the death penalty will not heal their wounds nor end their pain, and the extended process prior to executions can prolong the agony experienced by the family. Funds now being used for the costly process of executions could be used to help families put their lives back together through counseling, restitution, crime victim hotlines, and other services addressing their needs.

    9. Bad lawyers are a persistent problem.

    Perhaps the most important factor in determining whether a defendant will receive the death penalty is the quality of the representation he or she is provided. Almost all defendants in capital cases cannot afford their own attorneys. In many cases, the appointed attorneys are overworked, underpaid, or lacking the trial experience required for death penalty cases. There have even been instances in which lawyers appointed to a death case were so inexperienced that they were completely unprepared for the sentencing phase of the trial. Other appointed attorneys have slept through parts of the trial, or arrived at the court under the influence of alcohol.

    10. Life without parole is a sensible alternative to the death penalty

    Almost every state in the U.S. now has life in prison without parole. Unlike decades ago, a sentence of life without parole generally means exactly what it says – convicts locked away in prison until they die. Unlike the death penalty, a sentence of life in prison without parole allows mistakes to be corrected or new evidence to come to light.
    The death penalty isn't meant to be a deterrent. It's meant to eliminate the problem by preventing people from damaging society when they prove to be completely incompatible with it. Life in prison w/o parole ends a person's participation in society, and places them in a state of subhuman status and hopelessness for the rest of their lives, ensuring that they will be a perpetual drain on society while that society provides for their sustenance, all for people who are capable of contributing nothing, before or after they committed their crimes. The Death penalty removes them from society by simply ending their life.

    Which is more cruel to the criminal? Which is more beneficial to society?

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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Strucker View Post
    Because otherwise, we are siding with predatory rapists. We might think the molester deserves it; but we don't want to side with predatory rapists under any circumstances.
    rapeists should be tossed into a homo section of the prison and the guards should put a blind eye to homos rapeing them....they need to be taught what it's like...

    personnaly i think if you rape women....the sentence should be filthy homeless homos having their way with you for a few months for free.

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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by SocialEngineer View Post
    The death penalty isn't meant to be a deterrent. It's meant to eliminate the problem by preventing people from damaging society when they prove to be completely incompatible with it. Life in prison w/o parole ends a person's participation in society, and places them in a state of subhuman status and hopelessness for the rest of their lives, ensuring that they will be a perpetual drain on society while that society provides for their sustenance, all for people who are capable of contributing nothing, before or after they committed their crimes. The Death penalty removes them from society by simply ending their life.

    Which is more cruel to the criminal? Which is more beneficial to society?
    Please, we are one of the only countries left that still performs this barbaric practice. We have the shame of being among the likes of Afghanistan and Iran and other such countries that also give themselves the power to take people's lives, even some innocent ones.

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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by ~Dr.Who~ View Post
    rapeists should be tossed into a homo section of the prison and the guards should put a blind eye to homos rapeing them....they need to be taught what it's like...
    It's sad how no one ever realizes innocent people get put in prison all the time and yes that includes people found guilty of rape.

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