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Thread: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

  1. #131
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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    That kinda avoids the question. No, life doesn't have any 'intrinsic' value, unless one believes in mythology and such. When you work, raise a family, help others, you generally have value... when you murder, rape and molest, you have ZERO value to society.
    Unless one believes that empathy, intelligence, humanity has worth. You're just making crap up to excuse your blood lust.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    Has anyone in prison, on a life without parole sentence, killed a guard? That the possibility exists means that no, they are not removed from society.
    Within prison, there are plenty of reforms we can make to increase safety, but a lot of that will take a major shift likely centered upon not throwing so many people into jail in the first place (we jail more of our population per capita than commie China). We do not need the death penalty to pick up the slack; we need properly constrained and responsible government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  2. #132
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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    That's like saying the innate and inalienable rights of the individual "isn't set in stone". In essence, it means you do not understand what the words mean. Innate worth means that human life innately holds worth. And no, that isn't subject to the ramblings of emotional fools trying to excuse their use of government for their personal revenge. There is an absolute scale, and human life has worth. I don't care what you think it is, what you feel it is, what your opinion on it is; it changes not the fact and your opinion is not proper argument for use of government force.

    You people just look at the individual case. "Oh this guy should die because of X", but you never consider the actual, factual system you are calling into play which isn't limited to your trite and composed individual circumstances but rather falls under an entire demographic and statistic of systematic distribution. One guy may have to die, but if you kill an innocent to get that guy, then you may not use the court system.
    Human life has worth, but some are definitely worth more then others.

    I don't think every 19 year old who has sex with a 16 year old should have their nuts chopped off. But I do think for certain serial rapists or Jerry Sandusky types, that most certainly should be an option in any case.

  3. #133
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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    I wasn't arguing for the death penalty.

    Just for castration for serial rapists and pedophiles.
    That's cruel and unusual, I will not excuse this form of revenge mutilation through our government and judicial system.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Unless one believes that empathy, intelligence, humanity has worth. You're just making crap up to excuse your blood lust.
    I don't think a rapist has much of any of those qualities.

  5. #135
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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Human life has worth, but some are definitely worth more then others.

    I don't think every 19 year old who has sex with a 16 year old should have their nuts chopped off. But I do think for certain serial rapists or Jerry Sandusky types, that most certainly should be an option in any case.
    And either you make is such that these cases can net life in prison, or you accept the limitations and finite punishments of government.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    I don't think a rapist has much of any of those qualities.
    Exactly you don't, you're caught up in the emotion and hysteria; you are not capable of thinking about this rationally.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #137
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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    That intrinsic value isn't set in stone. And quite frankly, a rapist has a human value close to zero in my opinion and the value saved by preventing them from committing any further acts far outweighs any value they are losing in the process.
    I think you mean 'inherent value'. That's the term we used in Europe, as opposed to intrinsic value. IIRC, Americans prefer another word but the terminology is the same. Inherent value is the benefit to a system (legal, ecologic, etc). Intrinsic value is, well, not negotiable.

    Despite my ascribing to Deep Ecology in many aspects, this (a belief in intrinsic value) is one of the issues I disagree. I do not believe in intrinsic value, only inherent; however, I believe all entities have inherent value (the problem being that it is not always obvious).

  8. #138
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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's not just the rapist we have to be concerned about. We have to acknowledge the lack of perfect knowledge and that innocent people will also be sentenced. If you sentence them to life in prison, there's always a chance that you discover the wrong deed; which is not available with the death penalty. Give also the cost of the death penalty and that it offers no additional safety for the public in general, and we begin to see an archaic and unnecessary system.
    There are always casualties of war. What you do is fix the system so it is less likely anyone innocent will be sentenced, remove the endless appeals that the sissies have built into the system, and get to cleaning the earth of worthless scum.
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  9. #139
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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There is an absolute scale, and human life has worth.
    Again, now that you have moved from value to worth, what is the 'worth' of a serial rapist? Of a repeat offender child abuser?

    I am hearing a lot of generalities and avoidance. If you claim they have 'worth', WHAT IS IT?

    Is it because of your beliefs in myths, or is your belief based in something more concrete and real?
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

  10. #140
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    Re: Death penalty for rapist and pedophiles?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arbo View Post
    There are always casualties of war. What you do is fix the system so it is less likely anyone innocent will be sentenced, remove the endless appeals that the sissies have built into the system, and get to cleaning the earth of worthless scum.
    Mmmmm, OK. Prison is war, it's ok to kill innocent people because we have to get to the guilty. Why have all the protections and inefficiencies specifically built into the system to slow it down, make the State prove its claims, to place emphasis on the rights and liberties of the individual instead of power of state? I mean, it's just preventing us from getting to the bad guys. Sick puppies are sick.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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